Dodge This: Action Movies Unleashed
Simon Feilder and Matthew Highton (*currently on hiatus) are British comedians separated by a sea but united by their love of action movies. Join them for a celebration of the latest and (hopefully) greatest in action cinema from around the world, from big budget bombastic bonanzas to down & dirty DTV darlings.
Dodge This: Action Movies Unleashed
TWILIGHT OF THE WARRIORS: WALLED IN (Hong Kong, 2024) with Chris Gau
I now pronounce you 'friend of the show' Chris Gau is back as his wish for a Hong Kong banger is granted in action extravaganzea mouthful TWILIGHT OF THE WARRIORS: WALLED IN directed by Soi Cheang, and starring Louis Koo, Sammo Hung, Richie Jen, Raymond Lam, Terrance Lau, Kenny Wong, Philip Ng, Tony Wu and German Cheun.
>>> TOTW: WI trailer <<<
We also touch upon Ambulance, Bad Boys For Life, Story Of Ricky, The Long Kiss Goodnight, In Search Of The Last Action Heroes, The Fall Guy, Action! and so much more...
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I can't bear your nonsense. You're a troublemaker. the moon. or the art of fighting without fighting. Stick around. Some motherfuckers are always trying to ice skate on me. Dodge this. Well, well, come back to dodge this season three episode question mark. Don't know what all they're going out in. My name is Simon Fielder and as usual, I am here to chat with a good friend about some action movies and you know what we've got. I'm going to call him a friend of the show. I think three appearances technically qualifies as friend of the show. Returning guest, Mr. Chris Gow is here. Hello, Christopher. Hello. What were. So, in the rankings, if you have one appearance, or are you like, colleague of the show, how does it work? Yeah, one appearance could be, uh, speed date. Tinder. Colleague. You just don't know, do you? You've gotta test the waters, and it could be like, yeah, you seem nice, but I don't wanna kiss you. If there's a colleague. Sexy. Second appearance on the show is a kiss. Is that right? Second appearance is... I feel like there could be something, yeah. This is worth pursuing. And then third is friend. Third appearance is, generally it's full sex. Generally full sex of the show. But you call me a friend of the show, so it's full sex friend of the show. Full sex friend. It's very European. It's a European podcast. I cannot wait for next episode when I am here. Yeah. It's, um. I mean, it feels like not even that long ago, but... The Here's What's Happened listener, the movie that we're talking about, Twilight of the Warriors colon walled in is an epic action movie out of Hong Kong. And Chris, this is, you're going to be quite excited about this. Don't know if you remember this, but at the end of your last appearance, first appearance, we talked about Equalizer 3. Both enjoyed it a great deal. Second appearance, we, I thought this is going to be great. I think it's fair to say we were both quite disappointed by that film, and that's maybe me being me generous. That could be a classic bad movie in five years time. At present it's just a terrible movie. Maybe when your wife of the show were revisiting. On our silver anniversary. Anyway, at the end of the Beekeeper episode, you uttered the following... words. Give me your best mad Hong Kong thing that you think I won't have seen. That's what I'm into. And the gods of cinema conspired to bring Twilight of the Warriors out in the UK. By the time you listen to this, it probably isn't on at the cinema anymore. It had a bloody cinema release in the UK. I wish I could have seen it on the big screen, but anyway, it's here. It's a big movie and it is literally from Hong Kong. One of my sort of other notes was, we've only had one Hong Kong movie on the pod so far, because their movie industry just isn't what it once was. I say that with tears in my eyes and a frothy latte in my throat. But, no spoilers, but... HONG KONG'S BACK, BABY! We'll get to it. ALICE Hong Kong is so back that this is the second biggest domestic grossing movie in Hong Kong history. Did you know that? I looked up, I was curious to know what the budget of this movie was, because I was like, this seems very expensive. And I think it is expensive for Hong Kong terms, I'd imagine. But it's like, around thirty million dollars to make. And it's already grossed seventy million pounds. So, it must have done incredibly well. There's a lot of mixed... Yeah, pounds. For some reason... They still accept pounds in Hong Kong. And Crayabla. So I think they must have done incredibly well. All right. Let's put a pin in that and circle back around to it, because I can't wait to talk to you about this movie, but before we do, and this is also, I think, why you're already friend of the show increasingly, one of my favourite people to speak to in life about films, but also, you know, in a performative way about films, because usually I say, what have people seen and it's things that are, you know, in the movie, ether of the recent months. But your letterbox continues to bring me such joy on a daily basis. I just have no idea what's going to be next. And I would say 95% of the movies I've never heard of. It's absolutely mind-blowing. It is a sickness. Have you seen Bad Boys 4? I haven't seen Bad Boys 4, but in that vein I did watch Ambulance. I thought, have you seen Ambulance? Yeah, I have. What did you think of Ambulance? I think I need to revisit it because I think with the benefit of hindsight, now I know, and I think maybe, maybe this will apply a little bit to Twilight of the Warriors. Like going into Ambulance, I was like, I love Michael Bay, it's going to be great. And it was so mental that it, I just couldn't quite get on board with it. It was too, it sounds so cartoonish and ridiculous for me. It was like a, for want of a better word, like a furious angry wank of a movie. Like, it was just like, end, like, there was no pacing. So much shouting. Yeah, but there was like, there was no pace, the only pace was like, ahhhhhh! Just like, it was, like, it was so bewildering, the amount of like, edits and cuts and like, shots per second. It was like, it was bewildering. And I wish, because some of the set pieces... I thought were actually really cool, but you just couldn't get on board with them because they had no meaning, because it was just at that frenzied pace, it didn't give anything time to breathe at all. Yeah, it is fully foot on the pedal, and it never comes off. I think that's something that you sort of... We talk about a lot with action movies where you kind of need a little bit of breathing space after the mad shit to be like, whoa, okay, that was pretty cool. Then we like... trundle along for a little bit, plot, character, like, stakes, and then, whereas this, that movie just... and you're right, there's some really cool shit in it, and he is one of the first people to kind of lean into the FPV drone shots, and there's some like incredible cinematography in that movie. There were some mad ones, yeah. Mad. And yeah, I dunno, it just... something about it, and I think it's just so much screaming and insanity. Like you say, it's like you do need tension and release. And like, if it's all tension, there's, and without any release, it's just, it just snaps. I think like, Are you talking about a mad wank again? Yeah. Sorry. We're still talking about ambulance. I've, so sorry. I got confused. I shouldn't. Right. But it's just like, please give us, like you say in that When you release it and then you build characters, you care about them more. And then the jeopardy increases because you like the characters. But with that, you just, it was just nonstop. I think it's dumb, but in the best way. Right. I think if you just kind of give yourself over to this is dumb, then I think you'll have a great time. Yeah. But I think I couldn't flick the switch once, once the movie had gone. I agree. I think on a revisit, maybe if I go in with, you know, knowing. the barometer is set there, maybe I'll enjoy it more. Yeah. And I think in the cinema it might have been fun. But the other movie I've seen, which I hope you've seen, because it's a Hong Kong movie, from back in the day, is Ricky O. The Story of Ricky. Ha ha ha! Yes, I have seen that. Classic! That is one of the most entertaining movies I have ever seen in my life. That is full gonzo mental for your listeners. If you haven't seen Ricky-O, the story of Ricky, it's about a man in a high-tech future prison fighting his way out, but that just sounds like a Dolph Lundgren straight to video from the 90s. This is some of the most violent, weird, bonkers stuff I've ever seen in a movie. And every... It's like a comic or cartoon, it was amazing. I think the words that you're looking for are based on a manga. Was it based on a manga? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Absolutely great. Because that again, not to talk too much about Twilight of the Warriors, but again, like on second viewing, knowing maybe you didn't know on first viewing, this was also based on a manga. It just sort of is like, okay, I'm ready for that. You know, if someone said Ambulance was like based on a cartoon series. I'd be like, oh okay, well yeah, sure. All of that can... I'll let it... I know what level I have to approach it from. Yeah, that's exactly right. But like, Rikio, yeah. Rikio is like, so on the nose based on a manga. Like visceral, insane, over the top madness. Five star classic for me. Definitely seek that out. Uh, the other action movies, just some classic ones I revisited. Don't have to be action, remember, Chris. We're, uh, we're open to anything. No, we're gonna do action. Because otherwise we'll get really into the weeds. Another classic that I've forgotten about, I'm a big Shane Black fan, personally. Same. I know some people don't like him, but I love him. And I rewatched The Long Kiss Good Night, and it stood up. Do you know what? I put that on my bloody watch list this week, because I saw him in a documentary. Who did you see? Shane Black? Shane Black. Yeah. Um, you'll like it actually. It's called In Search of the Last Action Heroes. It's about eighties action movies. Oh, that'd be amazing. I mean, if you're a man of a certain age, which I'm no spoilers, um, and no shade. I feel like that's a PSA for your listeners. That public service announcement. If you're, if you grew up in the eighties and nineties, 100% search out, in search of the last action heroes, it's streaming on all of, a lot of the, um, ad-supported services like Tubi and Free V and Plex and all that sort of stuff. Really fun and loads of great interviews, including Shane Black. So, Lelonka's Good Night really stood up. Samuel L. Jackson's character is such a fun character. It's like, so fun. It's really great. I really enjoyed it a lot. Loved the revisit, I thought. Pretty much everything he's touched, I think, is great. I haven't watched his The Predator. I seem to be the only person in existence who had a great time with it. Everyone hates it. But it's really Shane Blackie and really funny. So I just, I thought it was great, but most people I know absolutely hated it. Hmm. I'm interested to, uh, I'm interested to see it based on that. But I mean, yeah, the Kiss Bang and the Nice Guys are just like, chef's kiss. Which also makes me, um... think of The Fall Guy, which I saw recently where Gosling is very much channeling that sort of rogue-ish, likeable, cheekiness that I think he's so good at. I think he's one of the best comedy actors out there, genuinely. Like, him and the Nice Guys is like the perfect comic performance, I think. He's so good in that movie. So good. I'll see The Nice Guys then. I mean, The Fall Guy. That sounds great. I really like him in that. Yeah, I mean, don't go in expecting a Shane Black movie. It's very much a summer movie at the movies. But good chemistry, gozzling is good. Some really fun stunts, you know, a sort of nod to the physical and the, I want to say the old way of doing it, you know, I think that's what they set out to, that's what David Leach, the director certainly set out to do, I think, was like tip his hat to like all the classic car stunts, you know, boats, fire. fighting high falls. There's all that and it's all like real people doing it. It's very enjoyable. And also there is a TV show, which is sort of, sort of a promo for the fall guy wrapped up in a TV show, I guess, if you want to be harsh about it, which is just called action. It's like a six part show on, it went out on Peacock. I dunno, you'll have to... dig it out. But it's just about 87 North, David Leitch's action design company, and it sort of focuses on them making the movie Violent Night and then they're making The Fall Guy. And it's like all the behind the scenes stuff of them designing the action, shooting the action, all the stunts and stuff. I mean, again, for fans of this podcast, it is an absolute no-brainer. I was very intrigued by some of the stunt work in the movie we're going to discuss now, because some of it is definitely in the moment, incredible stuff. Some of it's in like wire work, but some of it was CGI. I was trying to work out how an action choreographer or stunt coordinator, how do they work out how to do this stuff? Presumably that doc tells you a bit of that? Yeah, to some degree. I mean, it is like, if you're nerdy about it, which... I obviously am. And I imagine if you're listening to this podcast, perhaps you definitely, you know, the barometer is leaning in that direction, but yeah, it follows like, um, what's his name? Yesabio, the, the fight action choreographer as sort of like the head honcho on violent night, piecing all this stuff together and kind of making it like his journey to wanting to be a director next being the sort of like. second unit director and yeah, there's so much like behind the scenes stuff. And also, good, it's so connected, Chris, it's all connected. One of the other movies that I finally watched recently is a German independent action movie called Plan B. Scheiß auf Plan R! Plan B shit. What was the name of the movie again? Plan B. Scheiß auf Plan R! I don't know why half of it is in English and the second bit is in German. Yeah, what's the second part in German? What does that mean? Shit on Plan A. That's great. So, it's an amazing showcase indie action movie, these three martial arts stunt men from Germany. It's just one of those labour of love passion projects. Amazing. They're just putting everything they can do in it. It's great. And it's from... a few years back. And the second I finished watching it, I was like, what are they doing now? Why aren't they... It turns out, they've been working for 87 North. They're like, part of the action design team on Violent Night. It's all great news. That's great. Because there's this whole world of stunt co-ordinating in there, like the guy who directs John Wick and stuff. Like, it's fascinating. I'd love to know more about it. Yes. He is notable by his absence in this. documentary, which I have follow up questions because David Leitch, who directed the Fall Guy in his part 87 North, and then they did John Wick together and then they kind of parted ways. David Leitch did, you know, Bullet Train, Atomic Blonde, the Fall Guy, Stahelski did all of the John Wick sequels. He's 87 11, Leitch is 87 North, and Stahelski is not in the documentary action. Interesting. Whereas Keanu Reeves is. So I don't know if they're friends, if it's all amicable, or I don't know, what's going on there. But they both call their companies 87-something. Yeah. What's that about? Well it makes me sort of hope that they are still pals, and Leech is just like, I kinda want to go more in this direction, so we'll keep the 87, but it'll be like my building, and then you do your shit over there. I don't know. Don't know anyone in Hollywood who can spill the tea. I'll find out, I'll phone up Mr MGM. Good friend of mine. Oh, good, good. Martin Goldwyn Martin. Yeah, MGM. Yeah, that's how I abbreviate it, isn't it? Martin Goldwyn Martin. Love him. I guess, I mean, I mean, it's said, I bet you've said it on this podcast before, but it's just real stunts. I mean, this is so obvious to say to your listeners, but like... Real stunts as opposed to CGI stunts are just so much more exciting. And I watched this video about it, and it was explaining, like, with CGI, like, let's say in one of the Fast and the Furious movies, I don't know if I got the plural right there. Fast and the Fury Eye. Fury Eye. Like, someone will jump out the back of a car onto another moving car. And you do that in subliminally know that you can't do that because of how physics works. Like, because by the time you jump, the car's already moved, I can't quite... I don't know the intricacies of it. Physics. And the human mind kind of clocks that, and it's like, oh, and they'll forgive it a little bit, but over our entire movie where physics keeps on being broken, eventually you just don't believe it. And then the danger, the threat... What the thrill of watching a stunt is, is frankly, will this person die? And obviously you want your stuntmen and stunt people to survive. To not die. But that is the thrill. That is why it's so exciting. That's why you watch Buster Keaton and the wall of a house fall down around him, and you know it's real and it's exciting. So it's... that fine line where you don't want to endanger people, but you want it super exciting. Exactly. Yeah. And it's the skill and the training and the precision and the health and safety and the planning that makes you think, oh my God, how did they do that? Right? And you're like, it's definitely a real person. And you're right. Like, Fast and the Furious, I think, sort of jumped the submarine. Electronic laser shark after five, I think we can all agree. One of my favourite cinema moments is, I was in the cinema watching, I can't remember which one it was, but it's when Ludacris goes into space in a car. Oh yeah, yeah. Seven or eight? I think eight. Yeah. I started laughing because it was just, this is beyond Ludacris. And a woman like, really far down in the front row also started giggling. And then we just started having a giggle off. like it slowly rippled through the entire cinema, just of the two of us just crying with laughter at this moment. It was a really satisfying moment. I mean, I think it sort of like puts me in mind of the Michael Bay ambulance conversation in that Fast and the Furious sort of went from like exciting action movie. I think, I still think it peaked at five when the rock arrived and it still felt a bit physical and real to sort of, oh, it's gone a bit silly to them in space where you're a bit like, well, it's gone. so fast round the stupidometer that you're like, there's nothing to be critical of at this point, right? Like all bets are off. It's sort of making fun of a fast movie. Up post that is just sort of like, well, they went into space and that was two movies ago. What were you expecting? It's just so soap opera now. It's just like you're following this soap opera. Like, know, there's a place for them. I'm sure we'll talk about that with this movie that we're going to talk about, but like, it's just, there's not enough character in those movies to give a shit about the soap opera element. So, I don't know. The last one was just bad, I thought, unfortunately. I haven't, I still haven't seen Fast X. That tells you everything, I think. Yeah. I caught up, caught up to nine and was like, do you know what? It just doesn't make me feel anything. No, that's exactly right. Sad. I have seen some movies that aren't action movies, I was just looking at my letterbox to check. Sometimes I get a little bit trapped in the sort of action movie wheel, where I don't have time to watch movies every day, and then I want to make this podcast. But finally, I watched Lady Bird. Lovely movie. The Gretzky Ehrwig movie from a few years ago. Yeah, lovely. Stunt work in that. The stunt work. Amazing. Yeah. How they got those actual ladybirds to like do those twists and dives and stuff. But yeah, it was very much a movie that put me in mind of all the movies I loved when I was in my early twenties. Yeah. Like your sort of bound backs, your link laters, your before sunset, sunrise, you know. I looked at the type of, you know, I've watched a lot of movies and on Letterboxd you can see the stats of the type of movies you like. Oh boy. And mine are crime, noir, and coming of age movies. So like, coming of age movies, I'm just such a sucker for. Especially if they're like, as funny as Lady Bird. And they're like, really truthful and a bit, not mean-spirited, but like, a little, not too sentimental. I thought it was great. Spiky. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. Coming of age movie, that's what it is, isn't it? That's exactly what it is. And that is why one of my favourite movies remains Noah Baumbach's Kicking and Screaming. I've never seen that. I'll put that on my list. Yeah. Dig it out. I don't know where you can, I used to have it on a Criterion DVD. You've heard. I don't, I think it's hard to know if watching it, um, double years, double years later, it still would sort of have the same, it's just about like a group of people who've just graduated college and trying to work out what to do with their lives. It's, you know, it's peak coming of age sort of vibes. I think if it gets you hooked into you then, it will still have its hooks in you. I hope so. That's the peak time. Dig that one out, mate. I think you would really like it. I will. I'm a fan of his. Now, I feel like that's a lovely sort of bed of movie nerddom to vault from into our feature presentation. Now, our feature presentation. Dodge this. Yes, we did it. You asked for it. You being Chris Gow, you literally asked for it and it was delivered. Literally a few weeks later, a little thing popped in my inbox that had the press release and the screener for Twilight of the Warriors walled in. You know what it also had, which I was so sad about? It had an invite to a screening in a cinema in Soho to watch the press screening of it. And oh boy, I wish I could have, I mean, I was not... I was several thousand miles away sadly, but my one takeaway was, boy I would have liked to have seen this in the cinema. It has a general release, I just noticed it's playing in, not a huge release, but it's playing in quite a few cinemas at the moment. And I was really surprised by that. I was like, really heartened by that actually. Yeah. I mean, let's take it back to the beginning. We have got a pretty decent budget. Chris did the research, thankfully. Hong Kong heavy hitters. We've got Louis Koo, we've got Sammo Hung in... I know, Sammo Hung! In a sort of, bad guy act. He's in his 70s. I was like, I was so happy to see Sammo Hung. Over the moon. It was great. And to see him get to, you know, do some fighting. We'll get into how much of it he actually did. With his body double. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So let's begin at the beginning. Chris, do you want to do a little pracy? the old, slightly annoying sum up. Yeah. You'll have to remind me of the title, because the title is absolutely terrible. It's quite long, no. And completely ludicrous. And I wanna talk about that title, but it's called Twilight of the Warriors colon, Walls In. Correct. Nailed it. Correct. And it's about a undocumented migrant from the mainland China arrives in Hong Kong without a passport or a past, and... While he's trying to find an ID that will keep him in Hong Kong, runs afoul of Sam O'Hong, Mr Big, and his gangland, I guess they're triads. A foul. Extra points for using the word afoul. And he, in the process, steals some drugs, which he thinks is money, when they do him out of his hard-earned money, when he's trying to get said ID. runs into the walled city. What's the name of the walled city? Kowloon. Kowloon Wall City. Kowloon, which is a real place in Hong Kong, which is the maddest... Look it up online, it is insane. It's like this huge shanty town that is built on top of each other into this, I don't know, city block of tunnels and... It's mad. And he escapes into there, and then comes under the wing of... a man called Cyclone who runs the walled city, who's an ex, I guess, enemy of Mr. Big? Well, has a past with Mr. Big. And then hijinks ensue from there. Is that a good sum up? Good, lovely sum up, actually. That is exactly what you need, isn't it? Yeah. We've got a sort of our hero, Chan Lok Kwan, played by Raymond Lam. version that we watched, Lewis Koo's character is called Cyclone, but I'm on IMDB. He's called Tornado. How strange. Or an absolute treat. I guess maybe they're sort of the same thing depending on how you translate it. That's really interesting. I wonder if Americans call Cyclones tornadoes. Yeah. Remind me of the actor who plays Cyclone's name? Lewis Koo. He's great. He's in like loads of throw down and... what's the other one? Drug. The drug one. I can't remember what it's called. Drug War? He's great. He's really great. Drug War. I think he's in Drug War. And he's really great. He's really good. He's got real... he's very charismatic. And now he's a little older. He's sort of even more charismatic somehow. He's just really good. Yes. As soon as you make anyone's hair like Silver Fox, they just get a sort of air of like authority, but cool and all the sort of... I want to say the older guys, I bet they're like literally our age or a bit older. He's only like three years older than us, but absolute Adonis of a man. They all come across so well in this movie. I didn't really have anywhere to start, but I suppose I just love that there's enough money behind this movie to make it, it looks gorgeous. I think like the art direction... coupled with cinematography and everything that sort of paints the frame, it does make what is a sort of probably terrifying hive of crime and dirt and horror in real life look like this sort of incredibly romanticised world. It's realised in such a kind of both smart in that there's lots of narrow corridors and single rooms, but also when they do go full on, let's have a CG shot, it's this sort of epic, like vast thing that looks like a spaceship or, I don't know, just for me, like the movie just looks incredible. Yeah. The production design is incredible. And like the CGI is quite ubiquitous, I would say. Like there's a lot of green screen going on, but it's never like... never feels wrong, because it's such an alien world anyway. Like you said, it's a bit like a spaceship, it's such an alien world, you kind of forgive it, because you've got nothing to compare it to. So, these sets are incredible. And then, it's such a good setting for an action movie. It's kind of like the best bits of the raid mixed with, yeah, like, alien. Yeah, I think you're right. And there's a really good shot where you finally see from within... walled city, they look up into the sky. You haven't seen the sky for ages, and as soon as you see the sky there's this huge plane just goes over, like, the spot where you can see the sky. It was just really great, I thought. I thought it was really good. ALICE Yeah. Dangerously close. ALICE What's going on with this title? What is that? Because that's the comic. Like, it's so... Why didn't you just call it walled city? Or like, it's so bizarre. No, it's based on a manga called City of Darkness. Which is probably again- Why do they just call it City of Darkness? If you could ask Martin, Goldwyn Martin this, when you speak to him. Yes. You're right. I don't know why they couldn't... Maybe there's another movie called Twilight of the Warriors? Maybe they're teeing up more movies? They are teeing up more movies. They are teeing up a prequel and a sequel. that is now in production, as we speak. I love that you did the research for this, because I was going to, and then I went down a different rabbit hole, and ended up sending you the comic book that it was based on, with not enough time to look at it. Well, when you say research, I read the Wikipedia page, so, y'know. That's where I'm going from. Gotcha. But, I was just like, it's such a bizarre, like, I would never watch that movie, because I'd be like, is this a s- sequel, or is this part of a trilogy? You know, like, because it's got the colon on, doesn't tell me anything really about the movie, it's such a weird title. Terrible title. But, what were your top line thoughts about the movie? Did you like it? Arguably the gang leaders, right, are in their twilight years, and they were once warriors. No, I understand what the title means, I'm just saying- And the city is surrounded. By walls. And they're in the walls. And they're in it. They're in it. Yeah. Right. So... No, don't get me wrong, I understand it. So what's your... what are you trying to get at? Why did they just call it... Walled City Warriors or something? I dunno, like... Walled City Warriors says like DTV all over it. Yeah. But anything with a colon says DTV to me. Man, titles are so tough. Yeah, what did you think of this movie? I... On first, I've watched it twice. I watched it a few weeks ago and then I watched it sort of yesterday slash today, because I wanted it fresh in my mind for when we spoke about it. The first time I watched it two weeks ago, I sort of went on a very interesting journey. I'm trying to kind of recall my thoughts from then, which I think were, I loved it to start with because it set out its stall so early with like fighting. it was like, they're on a double decker bus in Hong Kong in the 80s. And it put me in mind of Jackie Chan and all the amazing movies that came out of Hong Kong in the 80s. And I was like, they know who the audience for this movie is. They're like fully tipping their hats. They're like indebted to this time of like just incredible movies when the industry was enormous. And I was like, the action is great. then it kind of got into like the story stuff and I was like, okay. And then I got quite involved in the story and I didn't know when this, to my earlier point, I did not know it was based on a manga. And I think I was really enjoying the movie. And then I, I felt like it was about to end. And then it, and then it didn't. I thought, oh, this is probably where it's going to be the end. And then, and then there was like a whole nother act. And then the third act is where it's really wears based on a manga on its sleeve. And that caught me off guard the first time because it goes from quite gritty slash realistic with occasional, you know, wire work flourishes that you can kind of go like, yeah, right. Cool. Yeah. It was, it was like one cool bit to absolutely balls out that shit. No spoilers, but you know, slight spoilers. someone has, quote unquote, spirit powers, and is invulnerable, and it turns into this sort of orgy of, like, fight carnage, which, second time round, I just loved. First time round, it put me on the back foot a little bit. ALICE Yeah. Uh, yeah. That's... I'm just so used to, like, I guess, it is a kind of tonal shift, and they don't really don't tee up in any way that it's gonna... What's that? It's like, I hope I'm pronouncing it right, like wusha. Is it wusha? You know, like, it sort of turns into that. And there's no, and I love all that stuff for like a great deal. But like, it doesn't tee up that that's going to happen. Even if it was just like a little bit of seeding it. To be honest, I just, when I watch Hong Kong movies, they're always so batshit crazy. I'm like, yeah, whatever. Their main focus is entertaining the audience, which I really appreciate. That's foremost, and everything else is secondary. Plot, characters, whatever. So I always appreciate the fun they have with it. But yeah, I just thought, the thing for me, I loved it, actually, I really enjoyed it, but it didn't feel like it should be two hours, ten minutes. If it sounded like I was having a go at it, I did love it. And I will say, second time around. I think I liked it even more. It's easily in the running for action movie of the year, this early on. It was really fun. But I do feel like, and again, the Hong Kong movies I've watched definitely like a bit of the soap opera angle to things. And I did think this movie, like in the middle, especially, leant into it like a little too long. Like you want a bit of that and you like the twists and turns and the treachery and the... was just a bit too long without these amazing fight sequences. Like, that bus sequence, so good. And all the stuff in the corridors is so good. But then you're just like, give me some more of that. And it was, I thought, it could have been a classic, but it was just a really fun time, I thought. Because it's been too long in that sort of soap opera area for me, for me personally. Yeah. I think that's fair. And I do think the first time I watched it, that- middle section did feel like it dragged a little bit up to where I thought it was going to be the ending. And then it went on for another half an hour. And it was like, oh, you thought that like massive incredible action sequence was the ending? Hold my beer. You haven't seen nothing yet, mate. This guy has, and I'm going to say it again, spirit powers. Not mentioned. the whole... Admittedly on the bus, he does a thing with his finger and it goes through a seat, but there's no like sparks coming off of it. There's nothing to suggest that he cannot be stabbed. And then suddenly, I don't want to just spend the whole time talking about this, because there's so much other great stuff. Like for example, another incredible trope of Hong probably, if I knew more about history, we are to blame for in some way, is that people have such, um, workaday names occasionally. Like, there's so many people in Hong Kong called Jeff, it's my dad's name, it's a great name, but like, the ultimate bad guy in this is like, and they try to take down the ultimate warrior, Jim. He's just called Jim! I just don't, I think it must only land on, like, English ears in that way. Or, I dunno. Dave. Yeah. It's just, you just... Wusha Spirit Fighter, Dave. Just, it's very funny to me. And also, speaking of the melodrama, and... yeah, the second time around it didn't feel like it dragged for me, I will say that much. I think, you probably are right, it probably could lose ten minutes, and arguably it would come out of that middle section. I think they do very well at serving up great action set pieces fairly regularly. Like the beginning just gets to it and then it gets like really good, really quickly. And then yes, there is probably the sort of the reveal moment, I would say, where they're like, you know, a gang boss has like one thing he wants to do and there's a big reveal. And then it's sort of there's another massive action sequence, which is great. Mason- What I thought was just a little bit weak, in that, again, it's just this middle section, was this gang boss we're talking about who has this one thing he needs to find out. They only introduced that gang boss a minute before the reveal of the thing he wants. I can't explain it without giving spoilers out. But it was kind of like, we hadn't met him before, he suddenly appears and then he's the focus of the rest of the movie. And you're just like, what? Wait, who? Yeah. I think, I don't know if he's like mentioned at the beginning or he's one of this sort of when they're like telling the story of the past and you see a lot of them when they're young, but they don't have the gray hair and they don't have like whatever the thing is that they're all smoking all the time. That's how you know it's 80s Hong Kong. I did, I remember the first time I watched it going, wait, which one is? Okay. So who is, okay, wait. So why does it, why does one of them have to die? Why? There's a lot of like territory. And, you know, someone has to die to take control of this and this, which I did the first time around have a little bit of trouble clinging onto. The one thing I love about Hong Kong movies in general, their action sequences, that I think American action movies don't do nearly as well, is there's a couple in this movie that, you know, the bus scene. What they do, and they did this in 80s movies especially, Hong Kong movies, is the main focus is you've got, he's trying to keep, like he's fighting someone, but he's got another distraction. And that always is so fun. It's like classic Jackie Chan, like don't smash the vase, but I'm fighting people. I'm fighting people. And it makes such a good, like, cause it adds this extra tension. And in this case, in the bus, he's got a whole bag full of money. He thinks his money. And he's trying to keep the bag of money, because that's the whole reason he's in this predicament. So he's trying to keep the bag of money, but also fighting off these guys. Or later, a character gets really hurt and he has to go to hospital, and the other characters have to try and get out of the walled city with this character who's really ill, while still fighting all these other guys. It just creates this whole level of extra tension and character stuff. that is so missing. Often it's just, if you just see two people twatting each other for a long period of time, you just get bored really. Like there's only so many times, because you have to keep on surprising the audience. And like, how many times can you twat someone in the face? And like, you get it, like Superman fighting Batman for like an hour through buildings. It's just so boring. But with this, just this one extra element, it just makes it so good. that sequence on the bus was just jaw-dropping, I thought. Like you said, I think it's police story one, they've got that nod, but it was just so good. It was so good. And there's another, the sort of turning point sequence that I think probably is the end of the middle sag, shall we say. I think maybe, I'm being a bit too harsh, but just to building big sets. That's something I loved in 80s Hong Kong movies, is like the finales would always take place on these enormous sound stages, you know, like a massive factory or a real factory. And I think one of the, like, Lewis Koo's character, Tornado slash Cyclone, his like, you know, base is like two levels of a building, but the floor has been smashed out so you can see it through. And it's clearly just like a physical set and you can just, and then when invariably there is a fight scene in that set, it just delivers everything you want. You know, it's like people flying off the stairs, people falling down and tumbling and clanging through concrete. And like, there's just so much of that. I sound like, you know, like an old man yelling at the sea, but it's that sort of classic. It's like what movies used to be, you know, and I think it is coming back to some degree, but it's so, they're clearly so aware of the legacy and they've, and it's such a sort of great tip of the hat to everything that came before whilst folding in, you know, the new guys, the new ways of doing things like the, um, the action designer Kenji Tanagaki, I want to say his name. Like his. more modern approach, the grappling, the MMA stuff that you didn't have in those 80s movies that were more just straight up kung fu, Wing Chun stuff. It's just got a bit of everything. Anytime you see somebody being suplexed or someone skidding along the ground, I'm like, that's Kenji, isn't it? He did that. Yes. Yeah. And that was really fun because that is new to me. I've never seen some of that stuff. call, like, harking back to those 80s, like, heroic bloodshed movies. They're all quite sentimental. All the John Woo ones are like, basically so... Yeah, melodrama. They're melodramas, but with just guns. So even that is on game, I would say. Yeah, it was really fun. One thing about all Hong Kong movies, I find, is you might disagree. The music is terrible. The music is always so... it's always like library music, or like karaoke... you know the karaoke backing tracks of western movies? Not western movies, just western pop songs. That's it. This is, I think, what I was about to say before, and somehow we got diverted. A, I will say, I think the score is very good at this movie. Especially towards the end, when it does get more, I don't want to say super-hero-y, supernaturally, but like... the sort of gritty realism takes a bit of a backseat to the sort of batshit-ness, then I think it's very cool. I can only imagine that the exact thing in your head as you're making this point is that there is. What sounds like the karaoke backing track to Walking in the Air from The Snowman. Walking in the Air! That's what it was! I was like, I couldn't place it! I was like, that's what it was! I was like, what is that?! It was insane. I think generally, like, Hong Kong movies have terrible music. Uh... Yes. In the past, I think that's true. Sorry, I was talking about Ringo Lam movies earlier, Johnny Toe movies that is the lead in, and sorry, not Ringo Lam. But the Johnny Toe, there's a Johnny Toe movie... Which is amazing, I'm just looking up now, I can't remember. It's called like PTA or something like that. Oh yeah. Parent Teacher Association? Yeah, I think it is something like that. But it's about this task force, police task force who, um... Anyway. That is like a great action movie, and it is almost unwatchable because the soundtrack is so bad. Like, I wonder what, why... Maybe it's just me. Cause I like my soundtracks. Yeah. But there is a lot of sort of noodley electric guitar in that era. Yes. Yeah. And that Johnny Toe one I'm talking about is called PTU. Yes. I haven't seen that. And it's all noodley guitar all the time. Not like in a like 80s saxophone by a burning oil drum noodle. Just like, just. Oh, it's terrible. But yeah, I wonder what that is. Do you think they just get library music? Or maybe it's just a cultural thing, maybe people love it. And to my ears it's weird. Yeah, I honestly, I can't speak to the cultural nature of it. I mean, maybe the fact that we find it funny that the hero's called Jeff, or that the gang lord is called Jim. I don't know if anyone in Hong Kong is like, isn't this... an instrumental version played on electric guitar of the cartoon of the snowman, where a snowman comes to life that is on TV in the UK every Christmas. I don't, maybe like, that isn't going to land. But I did go, I was watching it going, is this, have they ripped off the snowman? And then I was like, no, it's in the credits. It's like walking in the air. They've just, it's just a reinterpreting of it. It's like, what? Must know! But the person who covered it for the soundtrack must know that it's about a snowman. Yeah, maybe. So what's that choice? I don't know. That's why I think it must be library music. It must be, you know, like, the director or someone just flicking through stuff and going, yeah, that sounds good. It's fascinating. It's like a temp score and then it just ends up staying in. I don't know. I would love to... If we can get to the bottom of why walking in the air is in this. gritty urban action movie then, for this is, then that's surely the purpose of a podcast like this. Detective. Yeah. We should have done our research before we say. But yeah, I thought it was a lot of fun. Yeah. I think the melodrama to me didn't feel quite as syrupy again, second time round. I think maybe it's just being primed for a bit more, just kind of, I was just watching it with different eyes, but like... having watched so many movies that don't have the time, the budget, the script, or the calibre of actors to pull off half decent drama. Like when, you know, I did like these characters and while sometimes it is a bit OTT or a bit soap opera-y, like I did root for the characters and it was, you know, they all did at least caricaturey at times, but like, I thought that Raymond Lam, the lead, was really good at just sort of occasionally, you know, just doing the look that's like, I've found my family. Yeah, having a little smile. Moments like that really pull you in to when everyone suddenly wants to kill him, and he's literally fighting for his life. Yeah. And like you say, I do think I would prefer my action movies with a bit of soap opera, rather than... completely Michael Bay's Ambulance, where it's just no meaning. It has no meaning, because you don't even have time to know who these people are. Like, you do need... I'd rather veer into walled in territory, to be fair. But yeah, I mean, that's just my only, like, niggle. I did find the pacing in the middle was a little bit strange. But yeah, with the calibers of actors, like you say, and like, the set design, there's always something to keep you entertained. I thought it was great. I've really had a good time with it. It's stakes, isn't it, I think. A lot. Yeah. And it's so tough to... I saw Bad Boys, colon, right? Is it colon, ride or die? Or is it just Bad Boys, ride or die? Don't know if there's a colon. I think it's a skull emoji. Ah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or a hand slap emoji. Topical. But, speaking of, um, stakes, like, that is a movie that... And again. nothing to be surprised about. I can't really be indignant. I cannot believe the fourth movie in this OTT franchise started by Michael Bay, but it's a fun movie. It's an absolutely fine way to spend, thankfully, less than two hours at the cinema. And there's some great cinematography, and there's loads of cool flashy camera shit, but there's zero stakes in any of the action scenes. that's a cool thing they're doing with a drone, or like, oh, okay, yeah, that's neat. But at no point did I think, oh no, someone might die. Because that's just like, that's that movie, right? Whereas this, it does spend a little... Maybe too much time building the characters, but at least like, A, people do die, and it is quite sad, and I think that speaks to the actors being good. And B, you do feel... emotionally attached to the characters. So that even when the sort of mega batshit, like, four-on-one, borderline superhero battle occurs at the end, you are a bit like, I don't know, I don't know who's going to come out of this. Survive. Yeah. And that's the key, isn't it? Like, if an action sequence, you know, like, I think you can get tension out of an action sequence a couple of ways. One is like, you genuinely don't know someone will survive. That's a great way of building tension. The other thing is, if one actually, you know, they, he jumps to grab the bag of money, and because he's jumped to grab the bag of money, he creates another problem for himself that is exploited. So this like cascade of events, you know, just basic storytelling, but within an action sequence. Like the perfect example of this, I'm sure everyone knows this, but like, is that... in Raiders of the Lost Ark, when Indiana Jones is trying to get the plane, and while he's getting in the plane, various things happen. He traps Marion in the plane, then he sets off. By doing one thing, he sets on fire this big whole load of oil that's going to explode, and then by punching this one guy, it means that he's now faced the propeller. Continuously, there's surprises that as soon as he gets that one scrape, it causes... even more tension because he can't get out of another scrape. And these Hong Kong action scenes, and I guess this is what I was talking about earlier with the bag of money and stuff, really understand how to make action. They really understand stakes about you care about the characters and they really understand this sort of cascade of events that make things harder. They continuously exploit it. But things like Bad Boys, I haven't seen Bad Boys, but Ambulance was a perfect example. They just don't. no understanding of that, I don't think. And it really makes, it just, you get bored. You just literally get bored because nothing matters. And to be bored in an action sequence is heresy, really. Like, what's their purpose? It's the cardinal sin. Yeah. You're right. Like the scene where he has to, or someone is injured and they have to help him escape. But like he's on like a sort of makeshift wheelchair stretcher. And there is also like, then they sort of, those just like cool environment slash prop bits where like, they fling him out of the stretcher onto a thing, or like, you know, they use his body as a weapon and like shit like, there's a couple of bits in the movie where a person in a fight scene is used as like a weapon. Like swung around, or like, there's a bit where a guy sort of... dragged back and forth on the floor and people like, ehhh. It's so good. Yeah. But even then, it's because you're like, he's really mortally injured, and to do that, you're like, oh my god, they're gonna hurt him even more, but they have to use him. And that's like a real understanding of, I think, the genre, which is just so baked into Hong Kong. I mean, I guess it's still baked in. I just haven't seen many Hong Kong movies after the 90s, to be honest, is the truth. I think this is probably the first action movie I've seen from Hong Kong for years. Mason- It is sort of, I guess, like, maybe that's what this movie's saying all along. The tearing down of Kowloon Walled City really represents the movie industry once Hong Kong rejoined the mainland, you know? Maybe the whole thing is like a metaphor. Al- And now the movie industry is walking in the air, and it could melt at any time like a snowman. will be the summer. It will be the summer. But yeah, I mean, there aren't as many movies coming out of Hong Kong. And so when it seems like just every couple of years at this point, it's not like you know, the mainland are just churning out these straight to streaming movies. Korea is absolutely nailing it. But it just warms my heart when something of this caliber and quality comes out of Hong Kong. Because like, all the talent is there. I guess it's just like putting all the pieces of the mousetrap and winding the handle. I think I've mixed my metaphors, but nonetheless, I think this is just great. And you should also watch Raging Fire, which came out a few years ago with Donnie Yen. And this also had Kenji doing a lot of the fight choreography, because that is a, again, an amazing sort of nod to both the new and the old of, of Hong Kong. Oh, definitely. I love it. Donnie Yen. We haven't even mentioned Sammo. We haven't even mentioned him. I know. It's great having him there. He's so good at being like an old gangster. It's mad to think that he is Sammo from all the movies. And they even get to do him a bit of fighting. As much as he probably doesn't do most of it, it's well handled, I would say. ALICE Yeah. You can't tell. And like, when I was a kid watching all these movies, Sammo Hung was my all-time favourite. I absolutely love Sammo Hung. He's the best. He's the absolute best. ALICE He is the best. I did read that this movie was about 20 years in the making. It was in development hell. the early 2000s until quite recently. It changed hands. I think, maybe Johnny Toe or someone like that was meant to direct it, some big director was meant to direct it, and then it all fell apart. Yeah, like loads of different people. I think maybe Jackie Chan was attached to it at some point. Like loads of people were... Don't quote me on that. Read the Wikipedia article. Citation needed. Yeah. But thumbs up for me. Well, Soi Cheng, who directed this, I'm not familiar with. I thought, I was like, have I seen any movies he's made? He made SPL 2, A Time for Consequences, which I have seen and I will now revisit, but Twix that and this I've not seen. He also made a movie called Limbo, which I've heard very good things about and we'll also dig out. Christoph, I know you have to go. Before you do, do you have an action replay moment? I, for me, it's definitely that bus sequence. It's so... you nailed it. It's just this sort of nod to the past. But just, even though it had some CGI moments in it, and some green screen stuff, and wire work, but it had enough of the physical stuff, and the CGI was handled really in a fun way. Everything was fun about it. And it had that thing that I love in those old movies that we've been talking about with the bag of money. It was just great. And I've got loads actually, but I think that was my favorite. Yeah. There are, this is a movie with like so many memorable bits. And I was trying to sort of, I was like shuffling through my roller decks of, oh, there's that one bit where he does that and there's that. And there's the bus, bus is great. Quite soon after that, when he first goes into the city, there's a guy on a scrambler bike, which nothing says eighties Hong Kong, like those sort of motocross bikes who just burning it around a bit. He arrives and he is immediately very hard, and has a knife, and there's like a knife fight on a narrow balcony. Love that. Oh, that was great. Yeah. Also, towards the end, when the sort of all-star team-up happens, and they all kind of get a little intro moment. That. Yeah. I was like, fucking yes, mate! Slow-mo with their hair blowing in the wind moment. Yeah. It goes absolutely mad, but it's very, very cool. What I liked about this is it's a good mix. I saw an Indonesian movie, I can't remember what, you might know the name of it, it's called like, Remember the Night or something. Oh, The Night Comes For Us. Yeah. And like, that had some like, amazing fight sequences, but it's so like, violent. Like it was like, it was never punching, it was all like knives and gouging people out. And like, for me, I can't quite get on board with it, as much as I like the action sequences, and I like a bit of ultraviolence. Yeah. was just too much. But this had this good mix of old-school, just like Wing Chun or whatever, but also a bit of knifing, a bit of blood, and all that grappling. It was like a really good mix of all the new stuff with the old. Thumbs up. Thumbs up from me. Thank you for introducing me to it. Chris, friend of the show, has given it a thumbs up. I think that means maybe we've won you back, post Beekeeper, I hope. Yeah. I think, hopefully I'll come back for... sex wife of the show? What is it? Sex husband? Concubine of the show? Concubine of the show. Yeah. I can't wait to be concubine of the show. I think the pendulum swung from one side, from equalizer to beekeeper. I think we're back to equalizer side of delight. I think I enjoyed this more than the equalizer. Like I said, this is easily in the running for action movie of the year so far. You know, bring on the challenges. Very excited to see what else is out there. But this... This gets a two thumbs up. No one's copyrighted that as a way of recommending movies, have they? Two thumbs up from me! That's very 80s. Two guns up from me. Two guns up. Not so many guns in the movie, actually. No. I want to put something else into the universe, because last time I said what I wanted, it happened. Oh, here we go. So what should we put ours for? I would like a good American action film in the vein of Shane Black, where it's quite funny. You like the characters. and hijinks institute. That's what I'm putting out into the universe now. That's what I'd like to do next time. Well, the listeners have listened, and let's hope the universe has also listened. Kristoff, if people need to urgently find you, can they? Yeah, call me. Call me on my mobile. Will you answer? Is it on silent all the time? It's on silent. But you can call me anytime as a friend of me. Thank you so much. I just want everyone to follow you on Letterboxd, so I'll put the link below, because they will be introduced to just the most movies you've never heard of, I would say, unless they're smart people who have watched the BFI's Top 100 movies, or the AFI's Top 100 movies, or any big list, probably. But I still don't know where you're finding them. I'm buying Blu-rays now, I'm totally in too deep. Way and way and way deep. That collection's gonna be on Facebook Marketplace before you know it. Yeah, I've got a kid on the way, so almost definitely. There's the college fund in the alphabetised shelves. With every year, the worst college you'll be going to, son. They retain their value, Simon. That's what I tell my wife. Alright, love you lots, can't wait to come back. Thanks for having me. Goodbye!
