Dodge This: Action Movies Unleashed
Simon Feilder and Matthew Highton are British comedians separated by a sea but united by their love of action movies. Join them for a celebration of the latest and (hopefully) greatest in action cinema from around the world, from big budget bombastic bonanzas to down & dirty DTV darlings.
Dodge This: Action Movies Unleashed
TIGER 3 (India, 2023) with Nirvi Maru & Emil Struijker Boudier
We're heading back to Bollywood and we're bringing someone Actually From There to help us! Simon is joined by old pal Emil and real-life Indian Nirvi Maru for masala mega sequel TIGER 3, the Hindi-language action thriller film directed by Maneesh Sharma, produced by Aditya Chopra under Yash Raj Films and starring Salman Khan, Katrina Kaif and Emraan Hashmi.
We've also watch Tiger Zinda Hai (after the Wandering Earth snafu ;p), A Haunting In Venice and Emil has gone deep on his new PS5.
Off The Trails
Argylle — Official Trailer | Apple TV+
ONE PERCENTER - Trailer | BIFFF2023
MADAME WEB – Official Trailer (HD)
The show's got a Twitter: @dodgethispod and so does @simonfeilder
Instagrams: @simonfeilder & @nirv.e & @firesidepanda // and website simonfeilder.com
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My name is not Avinash Singh Rathore, but for all of you, I am Tiger. Every soldier in this movie can't shoot a gun. He makes C4 out of his buttons. Oh my God! As long as Tiger doesn't die, Tiger doesn't lose. Guy aim the art of fighting without fighting. Stick around. Some motherfuckers are always trying to ice skate on me. Dodge this. Yes! Welcome to Dodge This. Action movies unleashed. It's season three. It's episode five. It's another movie with a number in the title. It's Tiger 3. The Bollywood mega... actioner franchise universe explosions. More words please. Words. You may have already heard a voice and you may already recognize that voice because in what is becoming something of a tradition, I am joined by Bollywood, an Indian actioner mega fan himself, all the way from Amsterdam. It's Emil Stroker, you have to say his middle name, He's back. Okay. Well, Megafan kind of implies that I know a lot, which I do not. No, that's true. But hey, no spoilers listeners. Um, we might have a little extra treat coming up for you later to inject some of our nascent fandom with a bit of a background and cultural perspective. Perhaps that feels, I mean, it will probably say in the title. there's someone else, so it doesn't feel that like you can really tease it that much. It's not like you know someone unexpected appearing halfway through. For example. No, which you should do if we are talking about Indian cinema, because they do that all the time, where somebody just shows up out of nowhere without any explanation and then just leaves. Then this feels perfectly fitting. Some of my favorite moments. Yeah, in the middle of a song and then just somebody shows up and you Google it like, oh, that was a director he wants to work with. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Okay, cool. Can't guarantee that doesn't happen in Tiger 3, if I'm honest. The director could be in there. I don't know what he looks like. There's so much research outside of the standard stuff. Anyway, Emil, it's been all of four, three episodes since last you joined us. Have you watched a movie since last time we spoke? So no, no movies. Well, I, well, I'm trying to remember, uh, if this was before or after Joanne, I watched The Haunting in Venice, which was, um, as our mutual friend Simon Lucas likes to say, aggressively adequate. I mean, he likes to say that just about, about movies, um, uh, that he thinks are aggressively adequate. I did hear it was, it was fine. It's fine. I sort of want to get in, I like, you know, detective movies who've done it. So I like the idea of these new pueros. 12 Angry Men is my favourite movie, closely followed by R.R.R. A House Come Up Before. Which are two wildly different movies. But 12 Angry Men is exactly everything I like about detective movies, about courtroom movies. It's that slow, methodical pacing of uncovering bits and pieces slowly to come to the truth. which is in the case of 12 angry men is like, we don't know. And that's the point. Um, yeah. And that in the haunting in Venice is sort of more like, Oh, this is nice to put on a Sunday afternoon when you're at your grandparents or something. Like, yeah, you don't need to follow along. It's fine. Everybody's really trying to act their hearts out, but it's, it's up against a very, you know, mediocre script, I guess. Did you watch the Orient Express re reboot? Yeah. Which was, I think in the, like. Cause I thought I really enjoyed or not really enjoyed it. I thought I enjoyed that. I was like, well enough that to be fair, I watched it because I had to kill two hours. What a review. It wasn't a, oh, I need to see that. Yeah, the trains were not going anywhere. And I missed out on Siegfried and Joy theater show that was happening in Amsterdam, but I was not there. Broken hearted, cause those guys are super fun. And Haunting in Venice was not, but more recently than that. So I got my, uh, I got a place in your fight this year. And I've sort of been trying to catch up on games on that. Cause I was like, Oh, I haven't gamed in so long. And they're, they can tell these long, you know, stories within a game over. The multitude of hours. Uh, so I, I think since last we spoke, I've gone through Hogwarts legacy. Oh, wow. I think last time you were doing Spider-Man. Oh yeah. So, I mean, that was in preparation for Spider-Man two, which just came out. In preparation. Lovely. Yeah. Cause it's like, ah, this is, this is going to be connected. Sure. And I only heard great about the first one. The Spidey universe. They're doing it and they're doing it better than more of like the movies at the minute, I think where it's like, is too many, too much. We know everything's interconnected, but none of it makes sense to me anymore. Um, but yeah. Uh, so yeah, I don't know if I've played Miles Morales, which is like the 1.5 and then Spider-Man 2 just came out and then the both of them are in there. It's look, if you're into long-term storytelling, video games, sometimes is where it's at. Fair play. Clearly I like long-term storytelling. I'm a big wrestling fan where sometimes there's years between callbacks and rivalries and stuff like that. So basically don't watch any of Kenneth Branagh's pueros, but do get a PlayStation five and put in 10 to 20 hours, presumably. on these games. If you're running through them. It feels like your room is a little bit more expensive than the five pounds euros rental would cost me on the haunting. And hey, if it's a rainy day, go for Kenneth Moran. No, go for Spider-Man 2. Put in the hours. It'll repay itself. I actually haven't seen a lot either. However, do not own a PlayStation 5. But did in the run up to... ostensibly this podcast, but even if the podcast doesn't exist, the movie does and I would have seen it. So I watched Tiger II, AKA Tiger Zinda Hare, which I have learned means Tiger is alive. Because I've also started taking Hindi lessons. I'm it for the new listener. I am in the Indian city of Mumbai. since the beginning of this season. That's how we did it. I want to say each season I go to a different city, but not true for the first two. You're like Queer Eye. You just move to a different city every season. That's it. Next season, I'm going to Norland's. They do, I mean, they film a lot of movies there, so it would probably work out. Why not? And it's the last season of Queer Eye, I think is going to take place there. So hey, maybe we could do like one of those crossovers, you know, crossover episode. I turn up basically how I look on the podcast, because this is audio only, so I haven't done my hair, I look like a piece of shit. And then Queer Eye turns up and sorts me out, and does up my apartment, ideally. Anyway, I watched Tiger 2. I didn't like it as much as the first one, actually, I think. And I'm not sure exactly why that is. I think the first one caught me off guard a little bit, because I went into thinking it would be big and overblown and silly, and it wasn't. It was actually... relatively grounded compared to a lot of the sort of big Bollywood actioners that we've watched. Yeah, and a lot of romance. Yeah, yeah. And then Tiger II was sort of scaled it down a bit. Like it was a smaller story, you know, there's these hostages and we have to liberate them, but we have to do it this sort of around the houses way where we have to go over here first and then here, but it didn't feel like it had the kind of Bondian, globetrotting sort of glamour as the first one. Right. I'm trying to remember now with the second one, because the second one features one of my all-time favourite moments, I believe, which is him painting his wife's portrait in the snow. Oh yeah. I mean, it has got the absolutely ludicrous introduction of him escaping from wolves on a snowboard. So you can't take that away from the movie. It starts very strong. I mean, at least in this movie, it sort of seems relevant, the opening bit of action. I mean, that is just absolutely, you know. By the end of it, it's really not. It's one of the things when we walked out. We'll get to it. We'll get to it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll get to it. Anyway, so I watched Tiger II in prep for Tiger III. And also Tiger II is part of the spy universe. So I feel like we're early enough that it's not like coming to the Marvel cinematic universe and being like, sorry, how many movies do I have to watch? This one, I'm like, I think I've got them all. I've got them all so far. Five? Five, I believe. Yeah. Three Tigers, Baton and War. Correct. Hey, Emil. Yes. Do you want to watch some trailers? Uh, yeah, but only if we go to a trailer park. Thank you. Okay, you're fired from the podcast. So we've got three. We've got three. I've made it a rule that there's three because I think the trailer bit goes on too long in this podcast and that's really all I can do to rein it in. Less than three feels like not enough. I don't know why. Anyway, let's get into them. We got a couple that have been hanging around on my list of trailers I want to talk about, so they're not hot off the press and one that is hot off the press. Let's start with Argyle, the upcoming movie from Matthew Vaughan, director of the Kingsman series. The Kingsman universe. Everything's a universe now. Everything's a universe. This is a movie, Apple TV, could it be a good action movie that goes straight to Apple TV? That's TBC. I think Ghosted is currently flying the flag for that at the moment. So not a huge amount to surmount. He's got good pedigree, it's very much that. Left field, oh it's a bit sort of loopy and crazy, but the action looks like it might be quite cool, visually striking. I've written down, well, not even with in mind that the trailer takes too long, but I just wrote stellar cast with a sterile vibe. Oh, okay, wow. I don't know what it is about it. Maybe it's the Hollywood thing of we're going to put one song in the trailer and kind of show you a bunch of the cool shit that we're going to do. It's just, it gave me, it felt like, oh, this is the lost city sibling. But without the charm, it felt like it seems like quite a fun concept. Like it's an author who writes a book and then it turns out that somehow the book is, I mean, it's very high concept. That is exactly what the lost city is. And I'm sure there's other movies out there. Yeah. There is also a cat in this trailer that I'm not, that puts me on the side of, oh, I don't know if I'm going to like a lot of sort of like cat, cat humor. No, it just feels like very, it's very full on broad humor. Like there's a CG cat doing stuff that gets my hackles. Heckles? hackles. Gets my heckles up? Gets my hackles up. What is that phrase? All the way up. Something's up. Cannot help you there. And the cat has done it. Maybe I'm just allergic. I don't know. Um, yeah, that feels like it was a, it's a little bit like, uh, you know, it's like those jokes in Kingsman about, um, bump sex that when you watched it when you were young, you were like, very funny. And then you watch it now and you're like, wow. Okay, not actually great, you guys. It's something that's on the mind, because there's a bunch of it in here, like jokes wise, and also in one of the other trailers. Everybody's just slightly too chill in the moment. They're like, oh, yeah, alright, I don't know if you should be saying that at this minute. And it's not, like, Spider-Man does it, and it works. But in a lot of cases it feels like, are you just saying that because somebody felt we need a cool line here? it doesn't really fit everything. Maybe that's, and I don't know if that's age or just having seen enough of it where you're like, all right, I think I'm kind of done with that. Or if it's just terrible. Yeah. I don't know. I will reserve judgment because I do, I do enjoy Matthew Vaughan's visual flair sometimes. I do, I did like the first Kingsman. I haven't seen the two sequels because people have been very up and down about them and I've never known whether to hop in, but. There's a third one? Yeah. the King's man. Okay. Yeah, we got, we got a lot of homework to do. We don't have time. We've got two more trailers. Next up. Second trailer. It's one percenter. Great trailer. Cause it just teases. I've said this before and I'll keep saying it. The, this was a great, like, oh, it teases the premise. And then before we get to see any of it unfold, it's credits on the trailer. Yeah. It's another good premise, I think. A dude who makes action movies turns into a real situation. It's Tak Sakaguchi, who was in Bad City last year. He was also in the movie Versus in the year 2000. Feels like a long time ago. He was in a movie called Reborn, which I still haven't seen, but it's on my list. He's very good at punching, kicking, stabbing people very fast. And I... he's going to do a lot of that in this movie. Again, the concept, I like the high conceptness of it. He's on an island, I think, making an action movie. He's very purist about action or something. It's quite sort of meta and knowing, and then some baddies arrive and presumably he has to beat them all up. It's a little bit sort of like the... There's two similar movies. One is probably haven't seen that. A lot of fun though, where they're making a movie and then some baddies come. Also maybe like one cut of the dead, where they're making a movie and I believe zombies come. That sort of vibe, innit? I'm ready for it. I'm very ready for it. I mean, again, they didn't show any of their cards really, except, hey, isn't this a cool concept? And it is. There's plenty of great movies, including The Lost City. I thought the Lost City was alright. I thought the Lost City was all right. I genuinely loved the Lost City. I think love is pushing it. Look, Sandra Bullock can do no wrong. They're both charming as fuck. Channing Tatum and Sandra Bullock. A very easy watch. And that's where with Arga I was like, none of these people seem very charming at the moment. And it's an incredible, like there's so many big startups. Sam Rockwell though. He is a smoothy. You've got to love him in everything. Yeah, that's true. That is true. He will be the one reason why I'll watch that movie probably. Oh, right, right. All right. And then let's do one more trailer. God, I'm really, I feel like I'm rattling through it. And yet somehow with nearly 20 minutes into the show, look at the timecode on the podcast to see how much I've cut out now. That'll be a good indicator. 18 minutes. That's how long we've been recording. Okay. Final one. It caused seemingly, there was quite polarized reactions to this online this week. Madam Webb, for me, someone whose finger is not on the pulse of comic books or comic book movies, this came out of nowhere. And I quite liked the look of it actually. So me too. I really like movies where people die and get another go. Time loop is a very fun concept, but it's hard to pull off. So I was really hyped until the moment they make the dad joke about seeing into the future, which really put a dent in my excitement. Where she confesses, oh, I can see into the future. And her friend throws a rock at her that hits her. I'm like, well, he didn't see that coming. It's like, oh boy. That one. That old classic. If that is the humour level, then we're in trouble. There's a cat in a rucksack in this movie. I don't know. I don't know if I'm into it. But yeah, getting to, I mean, yeah, there's so many great movies with that. Obviously Uh, but there's also the Jake Gyllenhaal movie. Who was it? Yeah. Source code. Yes. Source code. Great. Fantastic. And Edge of Tomorrow. Oh, Edge of Tomorrow. Also fantastic. Yeah. And it's especially when they focus on the story, not so much on the time traveling, it can work out great. Well, my question is this is a Sony movie, right? So is this, this is technically one of their, we have to make a Spider-Man movie every X amount of years. Otherwise we lose the rights to Spider-Man. I don't know how this ties in to the actual phase four. We're in phase four now, right? Of the MCU. I don't know if it's part of that. Don't know if any of those will show up. There was no tease in the trailer of anyone we recognized, right? Am I right in saying that? Yeah. Not as far as I know, but I've missed, I think all of this. Yeah. I haven't seen any of phase four or a lot of the TV shows. So that is potentially an issue. I think I will watch Loki now that everybody's very excited about that. I watched season one and I thought it was diminishing returns anyway. Oh boy. Okay. Yeah, but the last Spider-Man movie was alright and the Megavirce, Multiverse, Superverse, Spideyverse movies have been excellent. I'm holding out hope. I'm kind of off the Marvel train at the moment. So maybe the kind of outlier Sony not- technically part of it, but maybe is sort of part of it. Maybe there's a bit more space for them to lure me back in. Yeah. I feel very similar when I, I've never properly got into comics. And a large reason for that is at a certain point, they get very, very complicated and you have to like maintain focus every single week and like read everything. to be fully in the loop because they'll just make references. And now with comic books at least, they'll throw in like a little asterisks and maybe explain what the hell they're talking about. Right. They will refer to like, by the way, this is referencing events that happen here if you want to find that out. But they don't do that in movies. They don't like, oh, by the way. This line that he just said is very relevant if you watch this show. If you just pause this and cycle back through Disney Plus and find Iron Man 3, you will note this is a reference to... Of course, now we have YouTube, so... So yeah, YouTube takes care of that problem to a large extent. Explain it all after you come out going, no idea, frankly. No idea. Exactly, but it's after the fact. So what we're both saying is... there's no homework, we can just go and see Madame Web without having to catch up on nine different shows on Disney Plus that are all aggressively average. BOWEN Yes. But I think it's the homework after the fact. Because obviously now with this spy universe, it's like, oh, I need to keep up, because otherwise I'll be lost. MIGUEL That is true. And that sounds like an absolutely textbook place to seg into... BOWEN You're welcome! MIGUEL Our feature presentation! Now, our feature presentation. Dodge this. Yes, we are talking, as promised, about Tiger III, the third film in the Tiger franchise, the fifth film in the spy universe, the third or fourth Indian action blockbuster that Emil and I have talked about on this podcast. And I thought, you know what? It's finally time to get someone who knows some shit on the podcast. So we've got another white guy from Europe to talk about Indian. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I we've dug deep and we have asked a good friend of ours all the way from while I sit in Mumbai. She is in Amsterdam with a meal. Her name is Nervy Maru. She is a lecturer. in media and communications. She's an improviser and she is a real life Indian. So she knows some shit about Indian culture and movies and she can call us on all our stupid bullshit and dumb questions. Nervi, how are you? Thanks for coming. Thank you so much for having me, Simon. I have waited for years and years for this invitation that when I would be deemed worthy, that my knowledge would be deemed worthy. And it's happening. Well, you know, the two white guys were like, we probably know best. And then eventually we sort of realized that maybe, maybe. You're still knowing the best. You're just sort of doing like a data check. You're just like, listen, we know, we just need you to be like, yes, you are right. We've wandered around in the dark room long enough. Let's light the room and see what's actually there. We're doing our best. I think that's how I would pitch it so far. It's been. a roller coaster ride and it's been a very short ride since Emile and I hopped on. I think War was the first movie in our journey, right? Which is also part of the spy universe. So we hopped on the roller coaster at the right place, but you know, there is quite a legacy of cinema to catch up on. And we've chiefly been watching movies where a lot of stuff explodes. Parithik Roshan takes his shirt off. So I'm not sure that is really giving us like the full Indian cinema cultural perspective. And far too much on your shoulders, but maybe you can just, you know, do a little bit more shading, join a few dots in our discussion of another movie where someone takes the shirt off and a lot of things explode. Absolutely. No pressure, but please can you represent one billion people? It's a big choose to fill, but we're going to try our best. I'm delighted that you're here. Now, ordinarily, I would force our guest or Emil to sum up the plot of whichever movie we watch. Sometimes this is a reasonable task. However, when we are talking about these mass entertainer masala style movies, it is invariably a very difficult task. Nervy. Would you like to take up the baton in attempting to sum up the plot of Tiger III? Ooh. Well, I don't know if Emil has informed you, but this was a very funny evening of my life. I showed up 20, 25 minutes late. for the movie because I was at the wrong spot. Unbelievable! She was at the wrong cinema though. What? It's not... It wasn't carelessness. Well, it was, but like, not in a, oh, is that the time? It was just carelessness. I'm like, I'm at the complete other side of the city. So... Okay, Emil, I will allow you to do the first 20 minutes of the movie and then you can hand the baton to Novi. I'll even let you go to the interval if you feel like it, but then maybe you guys can tag team it. Yeah, I would like collaboration. Yeah. Okay. Uh, because I think, I think I exerted most of my energy in recapping Masala movies with Joanne and I think it had incredible, I listened back to it and I did, I did very well, I think. You did, you did well. For what the plot of that movie is. That was Labyrinthine. Yes, with a tiger. So it's relatively simple compared to Joanne and Baton even. Uh, yes, we start off with just the setup of, uh, Hey, there's this city that when spies go there, they don't return. Um, and so here's Salman Khan rescuing somebody and being the only spy to ever leave this city. Uh, and this spy that he rescues, uh, gives him, divulges all this secret information. I was like, oh, but this one little twist that I. didn't give you yet, and that's not in any of the files. Your wife is a traitor, and then promptly dies. In as many words. Yes. So like, what usually would be a big twist in a movie somewhere in the third act, or like in the beginning of the third act, right, opening like 15 to 20 minutes. That's where we get our first big action piece, as he rides up a mountain on his motorcycle on this wooden path that's long-sighted, gets shot at. and then jumps onto a helicopter. And then we, his son is sick. Then there's, I think, closely followed by the revelation of his, the, the enemy for this movie, leveraging that for, um, it's already gang a bit monkey. It's already gang monkey. What's in between that? Nervi, had you entered the premises at this point? Yes, yes. I think that this is like right after I entered at the point where he's been given the information that his wife is a traitor, but then we need to move the plot forward with a song, which I think is, is it the only song in the movie that I remember? Oh yeah, montage plot song. Yeah, montage plot song. So yeah, we're moving the plot forward where he becomes suspicious of her. And so he's sort of like keeping track of our phone calls. And like, whenever she goes into the garage, he like follows after her to see what she's putting away. And you always see that she, I mean, it always turns out that it's innocuous. Like she's talking to the doctor or she's buying him presents and hiding them around the house, et cetera. So he's unable to sort of pinpoint if it's really true. And so he's living with this sort of... anxiety and hesitancy and then their kid who now is I'm uncertain like if he was just always unwell but we've discovered that he needs basically this medication once every 24 hours in order to live and if like whatever the damage that his disease if like he goes over 24 hours he like sees and then eventually die. So we have this information and then I think Tiger gets cold to do a job, if I remember correctly. Yeah. Yeah, because he has to take an asset, like an informant who has all this other information in, where was it, in Russia? In... Russia! St. Petersburg! St. Petersburg, yeah. In like the best outfit ever. Great disguise. Oh yes, he's in one of his classic tiger disguises. You're so happy I wasn't drinking anything. That was fit, take worthy. Like, wait, you're a spy trying to blend into Russia and this is the outfit you pick? You just decide to dress up like a Bruce Springsteen fan? I mean, he just looked like someone who walked out of like the southern streets of the United States, like some like hillbilly. And I was like, wow. And this is him blending in. Or like sort of not doing it. He's like a ginger lumberjack. Yeah. Which is absurd at so many levels. But anyway. He's, yeah, they're attacked a lot. And then he basically tries to get the informants to be safe. But in the meantime, like, obviously, by after three or four attacks by the last one, he's like, really in this hand to hand combat with like a very proficient spy who, like he at some point has multiple opportunities to kill but doesn't because he recognizes that it's his, his wife. And So yeah, and I think that's where the big part of the story starts falling into motion, because now it's like we've discovered that his wife is on the opposite side of him, or the side that he's fighting for, and he doesn't fully realize why that is the case. So yeah. And then eventually, in the attempt of not trying to kill the other spy, he gets beaten over the head, and then is tied in this weird basement. and has a projector and I just don't know how that technology actually works. Because I was like, you are a lecturer in media and communications. Exactly. But even within the scene where they show the cameras, you're like, that's not where the shot was. I think it's bad enough when they do that with pictures in a lot of Hollywood spy movies, which they do all the time. The picture is always of the movie camera. And I'm like, you couldn't be bothered to like take a couple steps to the right and take the picture. This was like the bad guy had his own cameraman. Yeah, like, absolutely. And like great sound quality. We don't see any of these speakers with a microphone, but it was kind of stunning. But anyway, so he's having this conversation and we realized that the villain is essentially holding his son's life at ransom and therefore is making his wife, Tiger's wife, do his bidding. And the goal. Yeah, and the goal has always been that the two of them sort of come together with their powers combined, like sort of steal these codes for him. But that's right, nuclear launch codes. That's it. That was it. I knew there was something in there. Was it bombs? Yeah, there were some codes that are on this Chinese ship off the coast of the South China Sea or something like that. A magical briefcase full of shiny gold. I imagine that my brain is attuned to holding this kind of detail. I mean, yeah. All right. That's what it was about. I remember all these moments. What was the plot exactly? I think after something, they're being blackmailed throughout it until they finally figure it out. My favorite part of the plot sum ups of these movies is when I literally saw it today and I was like, oh yeah, I forgot that. I forgot about that already. I was going to say, it's at least been a week for me. And I understand why. And we've had a lot of shows about Chicago and it's like, okay, yeah, there's been a ton of information planted in my brain in the meantime, but yeah, that is, that is the setup, which is I guess about the first hour and a half, I think. We're almost at the halfway point. Yeah. Still a lot to go. Yeah. The rest of it is them figuring out how to save the world and save their family. That's true. Actually. Yeah. I suppose the second half is the, if the first half is them winding up. the toy, the second half is the toy zooming off. It feels like a bad and a good analogy at the same time. It's set up and then delivery. I've made a worse one this very episode. I made a terrible analogy. Yeah. The first half is a lot of setup and plot machinations and the second half is a lot of action, I would say. This sounds so weird to say it, but I do believe it's true. Not as over the top as some of the other movies that we've seen. Yeah, I mean, it's not as convoluted. It oddly feels more grounded when, again, the opening sequence is not grounded at all, but it has moments of ungroundedness where Bataan, throughout it, feels completely unhinged. Like, there's not a moment in Bataan where you go like, nah, this is normal. But even his weird out-disguise as this hillbilly. Yeah, in Russia for some reason. You're like, yeah, okay. That's, I guess, fine. That seems reasonable that somebody would do that or could get their hands on something like that or would attempt that, I guess. And like even the poison in his son's system that like, hey, this needs to happen every 24 hours seems sort of reasonable in a weird way throughout all the madness. Could happen. Yeah. I think the, this series, its MO is slightly more. realistic in enormous air quotes. Right? If Pataan is crazy over the top, war was crazy over the top. The first Tiger movie, I should have asked you this, Navi, have you seen all the other Tiger movies? I have not watched the second one. I watched the first one and it's been a really long time. But yeah. 2012 it came out too. Yeah. So it's been an age to say the least. I missed the second one completely. And then I wanted to watch the third one. And when I did walk in, I was first wondering, I'm like, should I have all this background? Like, should I have watched Tiger II and I don't enjoy Tiger III? But I think the difference now is of course there is, I know that there's some stacking on the plot, like we at least know about some of these characters that show up, like people who help him out, the tech guy and the guy who does the recce and stuff. But for the most part, like this blending of like the kind of the Marvel Avenger. universe type blending has just started happening very recently. So I think that that's a very different angle that they're taking now. So those movies, I mean, even if you watch this as a standalone movie without the history, you'd be fine because they tend to drive the commonalities between them, I think show up. So, I mean, and Amil can correct me if I'm wrong, because I know that he's watched all the movies. No, I think you nailed it. Well, and, and most, and also thought about like, Hey, one, it feels like this is sort of an after the fact universe in as. Patan is the first movie where the cameo happens. That was this year. So it really feels like, hey, we got these two tiger movies, and now we got this war movie. Hey, why not throw these together and get some action stars going? I think they said it was a universe, but the real evidence of any actual crossover wasn't until Patan, I think. Yeah. And I saw Pataan and didn't know who Tiger was. So no, and it does not matter. No, I was like, Oh, this is cool. Explain enough for you to enjoy like, Oh, this is an important person in as much as like they just show his like shawl coming down the train. I was like, this is a big entrance. This is somebody. I don't know who this is. No, I gotta find out. I've got to be excited about this. And if they like, but even in this one, like when the teams show up, I literally was like, oh yeah, fuck, they had teams that also work together. It wasn't just them as a couple, you know, coming together, working together from these two different sides. Oh yeah, there were two teams involved as well. But they explain all of that. Like they'll get you up to speed. It's true. I think you could go in, pun intended, raw on this one. That's the agency. Yeah, just to clarify. That's why you said that. And I think you'd be fine watching it as a standalone movie. But of course there would be bits where you'd be like, I guess that's somebody or her. Does that tie in? Yeah, like at the very beginning when there's a flashback of Zoya and her dad? Yeah. Yes. Right? It's not just a mentor, it's her father. Yeah, yeah. Because her father said general. And then, yeah, I caught that. And then he died and she claims that, you know, when the person who's the villain right now in the movie is supposed to be her mentor. that her father had also coached at some point, I think. And therefore. But because he says, Zoya at some point, and I was like, I'm pretty sure this is, it would make no sense if it was somebody else. And they tend to be very good at that. Like, hey, there's a twist. I'm like, is this person? Great. Because otherwise, which is like, sounds like a bad thing. It's like, oh, so it's the most obvious choice. And I'm like, yes, because there's so much happening. It has to be. Otherwise you lose your marbles completely. The same person as a young girl, it's 100%. to be the main lady in it. So thankfully it was. That just reminded me of Tiger's entrance in Patan. He doesn't use his scarf to kill anyone in this movie. It's almost like they forgot what his main weapon was. It's kind of sad because that Patan sequence is incredible because he comes in with the scarf and a milkshake, I believe. Which he asked if it was like, well, I'll take a ask you drink this. This is amazing. Yeah. He does all this wicked cool Indiana Jones type. Hey, I got a whip in my hand stuff. And neither does it really happen in the other Tiger movies, to be fair. No, I think he uses it a tiny bit, but not to the extent. Not to the, this is an extension of my arm. Yeah. Well, that's not backpedal. Float above. What am I doing? I'm asking you, did you enjoy the movie in a umbrella style fashion? Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. There's so much weird stuff in there still. Not weird stuff, like exciting stuff. Cause even walking out of it, as I said, I was like, Oh, this feels for some reason, this felt tamer than any of the other movies. And then I'd started, you know, backtracking, going over the movies like, wait, but he rode up a mountain, jumped into a helicopter, fell down. or yet made his way completely unnecessary through this bell tower in Istanbul. Yeah, oh yeah. I totally forgot about that as well. Just destroys it to make his escape. Yeah, it's just history, mate. Don't worry about it. We'll rebuild it. Yeah, but the action scene. Put some apartments up. It's so unnecessary. That real estate is worth a lot of money. Yeah. So there's still plenty of that in the movie. It's but yeah, I've been thinking about this all week trying to sort of piece together why it didn't feel as unhinged or more grounded, however you want to put it. Part of it is Salman Khan, who's less animated in his acting than like Shower Khan and Riddick. I would say it's about the same as fucking Tiger Sherroth, who also only has one face. And like, I feel Salman Khan has a bit of that. Yeah. The first two Tiger movies, there's a smirk here and there. And like, That's pretty much the extent of it, but it, it sort of limits his range. Also in fighting sequences where like Sharper Khan just goes off and like, Oh, I'm going to be weird for this particular part of the movie, or I'm going to be super charming in this part. Uh, which really helps break up like a three hour, two and a half hour movie. Um, and I think that's the main thing. Like there is so there is a lot of very exciting action stuff in this, that if you were to sort of condense it into a Hollywood movie, like length, feature length, it would be insanity. But just because like, and as an area of the also say, Oh, there's only one song in the movie and the credit song that I've now taken for granted, which I shouldn't. Um, yeah, it's like, Oh, okay. This is sort of middle of the road. Very enjoyable. A hundred percent not a waste of my time. Uh, as a haunting in Venice kind of was, uh, sorry, this was a callback to our opening. It's not aggressively average. We know this. Yeah. It's too fun and too exciting to be aggressively average. They throw still too much at you for that and too many plot twists. That's why it's so easy to be like, yeah, in the opening 20 minutes, there's a big plot twist. His wife is a traitor. That's a big thing. And it's sort of, yeah, that also happens and this also happens and this also happens. I think for me, it sort of feels like this one while the first one was, like I said before, felt quite grounded and not as fantastical as a lot of Bollywood action movies. The second one, again, shrunk the nature of it. It wasn't as globe trotty. It was a smaller plot. This one feels like it exists in a post-Patan world. Even as I say that, I know that War was... around the same time as the second Tiger movie, maybe? But it definitely has more of a crazy, over-the-topness to it than the previous two, I think. And it feels more like the roads of the spy universe are beginning to connect in terms of tone. It has the lunacy of the leaping into helicopters and the... I mean, he did snowboard over wolves in the last one. We've already mentioned that. It was... That was also crazy, but in a slightly different way. It's crazy how fast you acclimate to this. To be fair, he was being chased by actual wolves. Actual wolves. For some reason that's easy enough. The mass CGI destruction, the enormous CGI environments, the sort of whole set pieces that take place seemingly on a green screen. in my memory didn't exist as much in the previous two seem more at home here like they did in Pataan and war, even though it was a while ago since I saw war. I do remember that being a lot of crazy OTT stuff. Oh, 100%. But war is still one of my favorites because it's relatively cohesive as well. Also, it was our first exposure, I think. So maybe we have a special place in our hearts for it. I mean, I have rewatched War. How me who? Okay, that's like- Yeah, I go, I think, because it's an easier, more popcorn watch than RRR, like R gets quite heavy. At points, and War never really does. It's just, if you like, if you grew up on 80s Hollywood blockbuster, you know, movies, then like it fits right in that alley of just dudes being super cool. Like that moment in War for me, where I go like, this is exactly why I like it. is where Riddick and Tiger are having a conversation where he's like, uh, about if he's on the team or not, cause he's been auditioning essentially for this SWAT team or army team or whatever, um, this raw team. Um, and he says, you know, you're in, but, uh, you know, I've seen that you're, uh, you're, uh, you know, you can't really look out of your left guy and, uh, you gotta make sure you don't ever lie to me again about that type of stuff. And it's all super fucking macho. I'm like, come on, you're on the team, but I had a price, all right? I'm gonna trust you. And then it just cuts to Ja Shashankar, which is this glorious, beautiful song. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where they're dancing in this color, and that switch, that's exactly what I enjoy about these movies. And what I felt like, oh, it's high, it's sort of. It maintains the same tempo except for a few places. Yeah. Didn't have an OTT R&B music video in it. No. I live for the fedora song. It's like, it's great. Like in Patani comes down the stairs, changes hats twice. It's like, that's the type of stuff that really like, yeah, breaks it up for me. Yeah. That's all I can say about the enjoyment of it. Sure. I have some more plot stuff for it. I think we've covered the plot to a degree that nobody could possibly have any more questions. Nervs, what did you make of it? So for me, when I watch these kind of movies, I think the thing I realized, like when I think about war or Pathan, and then think we juxtapose it with movies like Joanne, or Ararara as mentioned, is that I mentioned this to Emil before that it's... there's a stylistic choice because, like for example, RR is actually a South Indian movie, so it's not a Bollywood movie. I believe it was dubbed in Hindi eventually, but it's basically a Telugu language film. And this is very, so what we see in Joanne and RRR have a lot more similarity in terms of like, also the issues covered, and the number of plot points, excite plots that you have, versus like what Siddharth Anand does, who's but Hanwar. the director, you can, you sort of, you see these choices in terms of doing the crazy and then trying to streamline it versus, and then the tiger universe is, I don't remember his name, but he's a different director. And then the, so you can sort of see these choices being made. And for me, I sort of like noticed that now when I watch movies. So in a lot of these movies outside of the big stars that carry these, that carry the marketing, people also go on to see a certain kind of director. and the choices that they make. So with Joanne, that was absolutely true. It's a very famous director. He's known for his bat shit crazy choices and sort of the amount of money that gets put into like the production of these kinds of films. And so as an Indian person, especially from one from the industry, these are things you consider when you go to watch a movie and you kind of have a feeling of what to expect a little bit. You're like, ah, there are these directors. Abbas Mastan, I don't know if you've heard of them, but they were also very known to do a certain kind of film. And we realized that creating all these sequels, when Tiger first came out, it was to be able to create like sequels, but the idea of combining these universes wasn't up until very recently. So it even happens with, I encourage you guys to watch the Dawn series where- I just watched Dawn 2. So, yeah. But so that's- Just shower gone. Yeah, but yeah, so but do you see like the different like stylistic choices? Oh, yeah. You can see that it's like, it is still a sequel movie. They do have Dawn 3 coming out, but now it's going to be played by Ranveer because Patan is now Shah Rukh Khan, so he can't play Dawn anymore because if you wanted to create the space to be able to combine these universes. So it's been recast to a younger actor. Like it's Dawn is like the kind of James Bond of the Indian film industry or the Bollywood industry. So. Is he like a cool criminal? Because he is a bad guy, but sort of doing good work. Yeah. It feels a little bit like Robin Hoodish that you're like, you're a thief, but you know, you're on the good side. I have a code, yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So not just a Javan in that sense. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. There's sort of like, rogue. Yeah, this rogue spirit, but with a good heart. It comes from the right intention. And there's so much sort of, and that frees you up a little bit. Like unlike with Tygo, who's definitely like, I'm just a good guy and I'm just the. The police officers. I can cook. Yeah. I can cook very wholesome. That's a big thing in the, in all of the movies that like, he's a good cook. Yeah, that's true. Like in the first one, I think Katrina Kaif says something like for an Indian man, which I like, I remember watching going like, I don't know if I can laugh at this. What is this? What is the context for this? There's a lot of Pakistan-India context that is enormously lost on Emile and I suspect. Yeah, but it is something that even I think the most rational of people in India, I realize, sort of feel emotionally about. It's a visceral thing, which is why right now we just finished playing the World Cup yesterday and we lost abysmally. Commiserations. Yeah, thank you. Although I have just recovered from the Diwali fireworks. I was like, if they win, I'm never going to sleep. Yeah, it's true. It's true. But for a lot of Indian people, it becomes okay. As long as we beat Pakistan in the World Cup, it doesn't then eventually having the final. That's just sort of this internal sort of like, oh, that it's very black and white. and you see it come out in these films, it's kind of like how the United States treats all of Russia, like it's always the villain. Nervy has received an audio upgrade. You think that in a more globalized world where we do have conversations about, like, you know, whole people aren't bad. Like it's just their governments that are bad, or, you know, and then the way they conduct themselves. But it's just the... That feeling of India, Pakistan is just like, it has such a, it has an emotional need reaction in most Indian people because of the way we grew up with this history. And we can, I think eventually we rationalize it, but, and therefore they can still use it as a very strong like bait system that if you're like, we want the bad guy. Like the bad guy is never the United States. It's always just, it's either the British or it's Pakistan. oftentimes in these movies. Yeah. But while it does seem that Pakistan are the de facto baddies, the overall message of the movie is, can we just do some peace? Yes. Absolutely. Yeah, very strongly so, actually. Yeah, you're right. I would hope a kid would come out of that movie not going, ah, Pakistan, they're always the baddies. But like, It seems like there are people on both sides that actually kind of want this to be okay. And maybe it could be peace. Yes. I don't know. Or maybe I'm very naive. No, I actually think, and I think that Tiger did a good job this time of sort of highlighting that it's not the people, it's the governments. Right? Like I mentioned that oftentimes previously this complexity, this nuance is lost because it's just India, Pakistan. But now it's like... Oh, the people in charge might not want this, but there is a whole nation of people who'd be happy to be at peace and want progress in those kinds of relationships. And I think that came out actually fairly clearly in this movie, which I don't think a lot of other movies that sort of have that tone or that sort of paradigm to them where it's like where it conflict and it's an enemy to make sure that we very clearly specify that the people of the country might want something different from these few bad apples in the government. Yeah. Yeah, they make a big old point with the teams that show up because they're at first sort of apprehensive of each other and I'm like, but we can fix this if we work together. And the Pakistani prime minister has that very clear message. It's at the beginning and it's the whole crocs of the final third act of like, well, we have to get this message out before somebody with a personal vendetta destroys all of that. The scary thing is like in the movie universe, but in real life as well, like that can happen if you can just wipe all of that out, um, the, the truss. And especially because in that third act of the movie, uh, it all plays out in this government building, but the media don't have access to it. So it does all play out in the dark and it works really well. It worked for me really well anyway, going like, huh. So even if they win, that doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be a good outcome. because we don't know what the story is going to be coming out of this. And I was like, oh, that's, that's actually, that's actually really good and smart to play it out like that. So like, yeah, you could fight all you want, but if the story that comes out is different, it doesn't matter. Then you are a traitor or a bad guy forever. Uh, and yeah, potentially give out the nuclear coats in this case, like the, the movie, the movie bit comes into play. jumping off a cliff into a helicopter from above. You know? Sure. But same with Joann. I mean. Yeah. I mean, Joann also was like, oh, these are actually real issues. Like a mirror being held up. The whole story of Joann. And when you say that, I was like, huh, so it's a political movie? Like, yeah, kind of, but watch it. And you'll be like, wait, what? Yeah. It's kind of like they squished the drugs into the piece of cheese before feeding it to the dog. Now you're talking my language. Is that another good analogy? Oh no. Sweetened the pill. Kinda. I mean, yeah, specifically with Joanne, I felt like, oh, you've done all of this so you can justify the five minute speech that you're going to give at the end. Cause if you don't do any of that, people might be like, oh, look at you on your high horse. But it's like, well, we've been entertained for two and a half hours. Please have your say. There was a bit in this where a sort of orchestra of children appeared towards the end and then started playing a song and I was like, I don't know what this song is, but if I had to take a guess, would it be the national anthem of Pakistan? It was India's national anthem. Okay. And that was, I looked into Amil at that point. I was like, I'm feeling extreme conflict within myself. Cause I was like, should I stand up? Like, yeah, I was going to say I got to stand up before the movie to listen to that. Should recognize that. You watch movies in India. And now you have to stand up to the national anthem. They play the national anthem before the movie? Yeah. Only in Bombay or only in Maharashtra. Nowhere else. Oh, okay. It's not true. Yeah. I just assumed it was... Nope, it's not everywhere. I mean, I'm still at the point where I'm so new here that I assume everything that happens in this state is the size of half of Europe. That happens everywhere in the country. Extraordinary. I'm going to learn like a right ding-dong when I go to a cinema in the north and I'm all ready to stand up at the beginning. And you're like, guys, they just started the movie. What was that? What happened? I was ready to watch that sort of... GIF just repeating of a flag waving from 1983 that they couldn't get any new video of. I mean, they do have some digital versions. I will say that they do try to change it up every now and then. So you've probably got their 1983 version, but there is a 2007 version that's like a really bad animation. Well, this time I didn't get the same no smoking advert that I'd seen at almost every other movie I've seen either. So this kept me on my toes a little bit, which is nice. TSC. This is what will happen to your lungs. Yeah. I mean, it's all very well putting that there, but then have you been outside in Mumbai? I don't think people smoking cigarettes is the thing we really need to worry about on a day to day basis. Anyway. Larger issues and probably not for me to comment upon. Um. Are you British? There's a couple of things! So we should really shut the fuck up about that. Don't worry. Soon enough, I will be a soldier in a movie who is brutally killed, I'm sure. I can't wait. It will all come around. I mean, honestly, after this movie, I think I've sort of more finalized my dream. I just want to be a dancer in the 10th row of one of these dance numbers. Because you don't have to be a good dancer in that particular part of the 10th row. You don't. You're just a body. But just to be honest on that set and be like, there I am. I feel like you do dance as a massive disservice, but sure, sure. No, no, no. I mean, look at the 10th row in these dance numbers. The first row needs to be great and good. What happens after that? Watch Jai Sushankar. There's a great like, hey, what are these people doing? They're just sort of hanging around in these costumes and not really doing anything, but it fills out real nicely and it cuts away too quickly to be really noticeable. Unless you're an idiot like me, who's just like, what are they doing in the background? You're like, should that be my dream job now? Yeah. When I watch these movies now, I look for the white guys who have very few lines and think, I think I, I think I could do that. For example, in this movie, The Doctor, I was like, who's that guy? And you know what? It's the guy from RRR. Oh, I didn't realize that. Ray Stevenson's sort of snooty British sidekick, who's, you know, not a huck in that guy. Really? It's him! Gosh. And yeah, he's in this movie for like, he's got like two lines in this movie. I mean, fair play. Why wouldn't you? But, I mean, I'm coming for you, Edward. Son and blitz. That's what I'm saying. You guys, I did already hint at this, but nervy, this is some hot off the press news. I am that guy in, in this week, I was that guy in a Bollywood movie. Oh my, oh my. Very, very tiny part. It's happening. Very, very tiny part. Holy smokes. There are no small parts. They might come out. We still don't know, but I do, I did, I did get to do my scene opposite the stars of the movie. Can you divulge who you were on set with? Um, I. I suppose. I don't think I haven't signed an NDA. I mean, I'll cut it out if not. It was Alia Bart. She's the big name. Oh, yeah. She's lovely. Isn't she? So we're BFFs now, as you would imagine. I mean. I think it's an action movie as well. There was no action on my days, but from what I know about the movie, which is really all that IMDB will tell me a short. sum up of the plot. It is an action movie. So I'm very excited to see it. But listen, this is the beginning because who knows in like War 5, you have four lines. Maybe you're in a song. I could be in the 10th row dancing. You absolutely could. You're just like, you know, I can double in, I can do a few lines, but also be a background dancer because you're very multi-talented. So versatile. Congratulations. Thank you. Very exciting, obviously. Yes, yes, yes. I'm not trying to hijack my own podcast to talk about my film career, but it was a touchstone moment. But hey, cameos is where it's at, because can we talk a little bit spoilers now? Yeah, let's get into let's get into Spoiler Town. Deep spoilers starting in three, two, one. I feel like going into this movie, if you've seen Tan and some of the others, you're going to have a hope in your heart. If you haven't, then it probably doesn't really matter. So your degree of spoilerness, I think can go from nothing to only a little bit, really. Yeah, that's the, this is true. And I kind of, I think at that point, forgotten about that wish, trying to keep track of everything. Yeah. And then when it happened, it was this just glorious moment. Also, because I think it was one of the first cameos. where I knew who it was. So it was totally exciting. Because with the first Tiger cameo on Pataan, I was like, I'm excited, because clearly this is an important person in whatever universe we're creating. But now it was like, I know this guy, I've seen this guy, and I know why he's here. And I was very, very excited. Yeah, when fucking Pataan himself shows up, in the most glorious, in my mind, sort of, Bollywood way of... this super secure prison. There is a mining cart that goes right by for easy access and escaping. But here he is, who throws a little cricket ball that's also a Bluetooth speaker playing his song from the movie, which is just the fucking coolest. It's like Batman throwing a smoke bomb that just goes, and then just smoke everywhere. It was like, Oh, that'd be the greatest entrance of all time. And he does it. Uh, that whole sequence after that is amazing. Their little bromance is something to behold. It's, it's not as good as war, I think yet. It's a different thing. I think they need to sort of deepen it out a little bit if that's the thing. Cause right now their bromance is mostly, we should run. It's just, they're bromances. We're just two hard spies, really. That's sort of it, isn't it? Yeah. So he arrives and I was like, amazing. Wait, is he actually on set with Salman Khan though? Because they were sort of not quite in the same shot. And I was like, oh, is he just going to kind of pop in and then disappear? And then no. And then there is an enormous action scene with both of them, which is very enjoyable and I think the most ludicrous. part of the movie, I would say, where physics doesn't really count. And I think this sort of plagues the whole movie and the prior movies. Every soldier in this movie can't shoot a gun at the good guys. And a lot of times, at all. Like there's a point in that section where soldiers just abseil down the side of the bridge, not even holding their guns so that Tiger and Patak can just mow them down one at a time. Right. It's like, there's just no jeopardy. But and also like, don't you love that? Like, but when the good guys are like single-handedly machine gun, like a machine gunning them down single hand, like there's recoil. Not in this world. There is a sort of bad guy lemming problem in some of these movies that remind me of like Schwarzenegger's Commando and movies of that era where it's just the guy shooting the guns like ggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg romance. I haven't watched war again in a really long time, but the thing is also sort of knowing what the ethos of these characters, not only who they are in the movie, but also what they are as stars. Because the ethos of Tiger Shroff and Hrithik Roshan is very different from that of Salman Khan and Ashara Khan. There's like seniority and it's just the crystallization of their your perception because they can play all these different roles, but your inherent belief is that they're going to be the person that they are. Um, like it's just sort of, and so it's different. So even in terms of like, if they were to play this bromance out, if firstly, in my, like my perception of my prediction would be, it won't be deeper than what we've seen maybe like for a longer period of time, but it would be in these sorts of, um, combat situations rather than just them sitting and having a conversation. Mostly because they are just those kind of stars, because you want to hold the room in those sort of emotional or plot moments, it tends to be like, I'm the superstar, and then you're here for it. But watching them two fight together, which is brilliant, of course, that is where they're like, and he, in fact, he explains it also in the movie, because their general ethos is that Salman Khan is basically like the Terminator. He just rams through everything. He's just, you know, punching his way through walls, while the sharkon is more of the wily one. He tries to strategize a little bit more, has all these gimmicks and plot things happening in the background, because he's more brain. So he's like, I'm more brain and you're more brawn. And that's just their style. And that's how it's just always going to be. the star power nature of it. Because I read something quite interesting earlier that sort of said, say what you want about the Marvel Cinematic Universe, but each of those characters is so different and well defined and you can tell them all apart, even from how they dress, let alone whether they have web shooters or can travel through time or control people's minds or whatever it is. Whereas at this point in the spy universe, to the layman who doesn't all the actors from their personal lives, from their star power in India. All the characters are a bit like just a hard spy guy. What is the difference between Patan, Krithik, Tiger? They're all just sort of ripped and spies, but what really is the difference between them if you don't know them as... stars and everything they've done. Like, okay, maybe he's brawn and he's brains. But that's a sort of level of looking at it that I just don't have, I guess, at this point, which is really interesting to hear. Yeah, that's why I said that. I think that for the audience and the know, people who already are aware of this, for them it doesn't make a difference. So they don't need that kind of manufacturing of that kind of detailed character. because they're like, I'm, Salman is going to be a spy and then Sharuk is going to be a spy. And then to me, those two things are like black and white. Like it's very different. Even though exactly the, we, the similarities we see is like, they're all like ripped, fully shredded. All of them can dance. They all have like a, a female lead or like romance and all sort of the fun stuff. Yeah. And I just sort of, and, but even up until I said it, and they also sort of, spell it out in the movie right now in Tiger III, I would not expect any other audiences to actually see any difference between them because I feel that way when I watch Hollywood movies that I don't see as much of a nuance that perhaps other people who are better acquainted with the actors or the choices that they've made in the past that you sort of see reflected in how they bring a character to life. So very much with the superstars in India, I think that it's perfectly okay to just give them a name. And then the rest is like, your brain is already filling in the gaps. It's true. It's just like Tom Cruise is called Dave in this movie. Yeah. Like, Gujjara Khan, it's, when he's going to play like a heavy romantically, like in a rom-com, he's also given a certain kind of name. Like I've had this conversation with Emil that... If you watch some of the older, like 90s rom-com, like family drama movies, he's always Raj or he's always Raho. And you just, I know what to entirely expect from this movie, just by knowing his character name in scene one. Wow. He's not going to be fighting bad guys and like, no, it's not going to be like a machine gun fight. He's going to do some hand to hand combat because he's trying to save the modesty of the woman he loves. That's it. Incredible. There's a large overlap in wrestling, I just realized. Because. He's taking it back to wrestling. We did it. Always. Who had an hour into the podcast in the pool? I was going to say I've held it in for quite a while. But with wrestlers, they have different gimmicks throughout their career, or they tend to anyway, like multiple ones at the beginning, trying to figure it out. And then if you're Dwayne Johnson, you hit up on the rock, but he started out as rocking my via, so that is a very nice and simple format of like. Rocky, my via the rock, we can see that transition, but the character does change because he was a good guy when he entered, then he became a bad guy. But then he was so cool. They became a good guy again. And because it's a very slow sort of transition, the fans will absolutely know the differences between those characters and why, but from a surface level, you're like, yeah, but that's still Dwayne Johnson. It's just a different haircut. That's what's, what's going on. But there's can be dramatic moments. with this dude named Mick Foley who was mankind, but also Cactus Jack. And Cactus Jack was just in Japan and did all these death matches. And there's an incredible moment where he is mankind ascending on the stage and like, you're right, I'm not good enough to fight you. Whatever his opponent did, not important for you guys. But I have a friend who will. And then he just takes off a shirt with a Cactus Jack shirt underneath and his opponent reacts like, oh, shit, no, not Cactus, no. I thought I was fighting Raj. It's like, no, it's not. You're fighting somebody else. And there's real, no distinct difference between even those two characters because this guy, McFauley, just puts his body on the line and bumps around all over the place. But we know there's a difference, just slight little moments where like, yeah, mankind handles this difference because he's a tortured soul and Cactus Jack just wants punishment. Even though in a random match that I will show you, that will not show up at all. Kind of works, Emil. I've got to say, in this movie, although Salman Khan is the name above the title, Katrina Kaif, I've probably mispronounced that, does finally get, I would say, almost equal footing. Yes. You know, the first movie was like half a romantic drama of them meeting and then the second movie, she got to do a bit of fighting, but then in the finale, she was like locked up in a... a pit while he was just shooting everyone for ages. And I think finally in this one, she gets to be like super hard and shoot people. I said this after we walked out of the movie. This was like, this shouldn't have been called Tiger. This was her movie. Like, she does the most ass kicking and most creative ass kicking as well. Yeah, absolutely. And that's the thing, so we're noticing... Over time, the differences in the trend as well, like we're seeing these movies sort of update their structure, their basic constructs also are just sort of like making it now to 2023. They are like you have a very strong female lead where she's just not on candy and she's not the one that you're just saving. And she's not here just for the songs. She's just a very important. She's very important to the plot. And if anything that this movie, she does some extremely, she's very much like, I was like, well, we've created our own Lara Croft because she does a hell of a job in this movie. She really does. Yeah. So. She was great in the other ones, but like you said, we'll just put her over here while he does some fighting. Yeah. Here was almost the opposite where she was kicking ass and like, but he's over here with just one person, just. Yeah, she gets to do some really great stuff in this. And we didn't talk about the one other, the spoiler, which is the sort of post credits, mid credits. It's almost like a Marvel level superhero introduction. Way better. Look, with Marvel, we just get Sam Jackson showing up. Hey, do you want to be an Avenger or not? So he's talking about this guy who's like the hooded figure. He's just... I guess a tiny action scene where he beats up a whole load of people, pulls the hood off. It's horrific, Rochon. I was so excited. Woooo boy! Because then it hit me that obviously, I mean, I knew this, but this was sort of the practical showing of it, like no, this is happening, of all these people coming together in one movie at some point. So that's my next question. Is that possible? RRR was like, you rarely get two stars of this caliber in a movie together. And so can you get Hrithik, Salman and SRK to headline a movie together? Can they be equal billing? Is that possible? I don't know about equal billing, but I think of course the next movie that Hrithik will be in, they're likely to have meaty parts like... at least action sequences with the other two as well, or they might show up like one after the other. The fact, even just sort of trying to get, I mean, for the longest time, trying to get Salman Khan and Shah Rukh Khan in the same movie was unheard of. Like in the industry, everyone knew it was impossible. There were camps, like they were like either on the Shah Rukh camp or the Salman camp. Whoa. And so, because there was that sort of ego around that, you know, I am the superstar and you don't want to share that spotlight. But of course, everybody likes money. This is lucrative for everybody. Like if you sort of now try to blend these universes, what will it look like? I don't know if you guys have heard of Aamir Khan, but like he was in, I'm gonna say like about, up until like a decade ago, his name was said in the same breath with Salman and Shahrukh. So the three Khans that rule Bollywood. So there's Aamir, Shahrukh and Salman. And they all three do very different types of movies. And so the rise of these kind of like crazed out action movies has been recent. It's more of a feature of this last decade. And so, and you see it because you see that it's just we're going back to more of the masala film like gratuitous violence movies because... That's the thing, it works. And then bringing in these, having them work for these smaller sequences together is just like people, so now we have crossover of the fan base of Salman and Shah Rukh, because as a Shah Rukh fan, you wanna go even for those 10 minutes and watch him in this movie with Salman. And so now you've suddenly, what you believed was just a piece of the pie, you opened it up so much for yourself. And now you have Hrithik that you will have join the situation. So... even the actors have started looking at it that way because it just makes commercial sense to do it. So to equally like, I think triple headline it, I don't think it's around the corner. It might eventually happen if we realize that it makes a lot of commercial sense to do so because that's what these new crossovers are showing us based on their numbers, but definitely strong, like heavy sequences with the two of them involved because you wanna. You want to exert all these fan bases that are so loyal. Incredible. Yeah. I mean, cause right now it's Tiger versus Baton, which I'm sure is like a very similar like, wait, you're the enemy. Well, we're going to fight. Uh, but I think Kabir is, uh, Riddick is scheduled to show up in that as like a cameo, but before that we get war too. Yeah. So, so they're not all going to be in it all the way through, but they'll, maybe he's just in it for 20 minutes. Yeah. I mean, once they gain the confidence, like that's why I was so excited going like... before we're gonna get Riddick and Shah Rukh just dancing together? That is wholly possible, yeah. I mean, I think that is absolutely possible. A different universe with a lot of these, one of the movies with these crossovers is, I don't wanna open a new can of worms, but I will. Quick, go to action replay, Simon, before we go another hour. Yeah, that is, that you should check out the whole universe of, Salman's Dabang series. So he was, and then, and so basically there's this whole like where he plays a cop and then there are all these like cop movies, which have again, this again, crazy like violence, it's silly. There are lots of great songs, you know, but it's less this crazy spy universe versus like it's more contained in this like smaller town and you have like one politician that you're fighting against and. You're sort of like he comes to threaten your family. And now then you have that you have Ajay Devgan, Salman Khan, you have Akshay Kumar. So all these other actors who are actually fairly big names, obviously, they don't compete with Salman and Shah Rukh. But all played these kind of cops in small towns who are fighting their politicians. And then there's one movie in Suryavansham, they all come together and are fighting these baddies off. And so it's the idea isn't unheard of, but it's happened at a much smaller scale with like in comparatively speaking, smaller actors. And we've sort of progressively seen that this works. We're gonna shortly see a lot of the leading women coming together, right? Like the Deepika's with the Katrina's come together because you wanna exert that fan base, right? You are gonna have Priyanka Chopra show up to things. So Priyanka Chopra may not show up to a Bollywood movie anytime soon, but yeah. But that kind of stuff. So this is all on the horizon. It would only make sense that we, perfectly reasonable for you to sit in a movie and be like, Yes, which one of the superstars I'm going to make a cameo now. Yeah. Because the cop thing just recently showed up on my Instagram feed where I was like, what is this? Delightfully. You have a full little world to explore, Emil. There's so much fun stuff and they're very fun movies and it's very ridiculous and you'll have a great time. It looks like it, yeah. And great songs. The algorithm knows you. I'm so happy about that too. I'm thinking I'm fully on board with the algorithm now. I mean, I came out of this movie going, I am ready for the Spy Universe Avengers. Whenever that's coming, I'm on board. Sign me up. I'm there. Yeah. Gang. I feel like there's another hour of our chat to go, but reality... dictates that we have to think about wrapping this up. Before we do though, I'm going to take us to an action replay moment. Emil, do you want to start and probably pick the one that I'm going to pick? You do this every time. I don't think I've ever picked the same one as you. That's true, actually. I think there's so many good bits to pluck from. Yeah. And sometimes it's just also like a little personal moment where you go like, oh, I just like this for me. Because I thought about just the Patan entrance. I could rewatch that any day and be happy. Like, I nervously will attest to this. I will force people to watch. Riddick's entrance in war, just showcase, like, this is what you're missing. It's incredible. He just walks out of a helicopter, that's green screen in. But yeah, I mean, but, well, I don't know. That slow mo, that CGI helicopter. There's a lot to choose from. It's the same with Juwan. It's like, oh, I will tell people about the motorcycle slip and lighting the cigar, throwing it in, kicking it into the oncoming trucks. But then even that little moment where he plays his own dad and there's an explosion that pushes him back behind a shield. Incredible. Such an incredible moment. Doesn't need to be in there, but it's in there. And thank you. That just reminded me of a not dissimilar bazooka shield moment in this movie. That wasn't in the running, but now is could be, could make it into the action replay moment. I think it's very understated, but if I wanted to, I really want to watch this moment again, and I've thought about it a lot since. It's not grand, but it's where he makes a C4 out of his buttons. Oh my God. I did so much research on like, is that even in any universe, is that possible? I literally had no idea what was happening. I was like... What was he got? Explosives! Buttons! He squished up a battery in his hand and it made a bomb! What happened? And then he took his buttons! Oh my god, I just... Buttons and a little bit of water. I still don't get it. But that's an incredible moment that again I'd forgotten. And I genuinely can't stop thinking about it. And if it comes on Netflix, I'm just going to be like, I want to watch this really close sequence. They could have, I mean, they could have just let it be. They could have just been like, oh, maybe he like stole something or like one of the other soldiers left something behind and he did something with it. This was so heavily like contrived and thought through that it's, it's like, it's, it's sitting with me when I'm like, oh my, and just eating soup. He fully MacGyvered it, but in a way where I don't understand what he did. Which also then attests to like, you know, okay, I'm getting confused because Salman's not that kind of guy to build a bomb. because that's a Shah Rukh move. And then, and now he did this and now I'm just so like the whole time. So that's my action replay moment. I was like, it's small. Great choice, Nervs. Great choice. I'm going to pick a, I guess, not as big as Shah Rukh's entrance, but not as small as the crazy MacGyver moment. But it was a bit that made me laugh out loud in the way that I love to do sometimes in these super OTT movies where... In the, there's a sort of bunker invasion and Katrina is going mad and like karate-ing people up and shooting everyone. She does loads of cool moves, but there's one bit where she leaps onto a guy's shoulders, she's hanging backwards with two guns, and he spins around and it's all in slow-mo and she just kind of like, just mows down. A whole load of the lemming bad guys that cannot operate their weaponry and are waiting to be slaughtered. She's the most efficient shooter too. Chef's kiss. Love that. One bullet, one person, you're gone. There's so many moments where like, Samakhan and the main bad dude were like, just kill, just kill each other. What are you waiting for? Why do you keep talking? She literally has a moment right before that where she just, within five seconds, kills five people. like, I'm done with this, we're not talking. Ding ding ding. Boom. You're gone. We discovered the other bad guy and we realized he's a double agent or whatever. And then she just, there's no dialogue like, oh, you've betrayed me. She just takes the gun, shoots him in the head. That's it. It's over. It was wild. I was like, that is so fucking efficient. It was so great. I was at the same time like, wow, okay, fair play. He deserved it and he got it. But then I was like, oh, what? They don't get to fight. He doesn't get to like really take a beating. It's just like, nope, see you later, mate. Done. Got other stuff to get on with. We're some of con does the exact opposite in the big fights. He was like, yeah, we have guns, but I'm gonna put them down. Even though there's machine guns everywhere and they get back to it in like 10 seconds. Like, yeah, this was a bad idea. Let's start using our guns again. We should, this should be more efficient, but then there's a whole sequence where both of them have machine guns and like the bad guy is just shooting at him point blank and missing. the floor when he's rolling around. That is also another moment that I was like, ludicrous! But I love it. Great. Yes, they are having like a sort of John Wick gun foo in front of each other moment, but with machine guns. Which is like, Tiger is just rolling out of the way of a machine gun that is above him. I don't know. I was on board. That final fight was pretty good. I like that. I like that a great deal. Now make like a Christmas present and wrap it up. All I will say is I think, and this seems to go contrary to a lot of what I've read online, I think this is my favorite Tiger movie. I think it goes for me, three, one, two. I don't know why, but it just tickled me. This one, I liked it. I managed to swallow a lot of the things that were super ludicrous or OTT CG. And I just went along for the ride and I had a really lovely time. breaking Simon down, I love it. Slowly getting him on board. I mean, I've got a lot of notes here, but we can skip over that. Nervi, thank you so much for bringing your gargantuan knowledge to our nascent journey. Does that make sense? If people want to find you online, is that something they could do? I mean, you can find me on Instagram with my handle. which is nirv.e, and I actively avoid people on LinkedIn. No, for sure. For sure. Yeah. I would say we're not really a LinkedIn show. No worries about that. This was so much fun. I had a blast. I just really like talking about movies, and Bollywood is chef's kiss. Yay! Emil. I mean, same. On Instagram, fireside.panda is the only way you should follow for unhinged slides that I'd make for Boom Chicago shows every now and again. I love it. If you listener would like to follow the pod, we're on Twitter at dodge this pod. I'm on all of the above at Simon Fielder, including threads. Now that I'm outside the EU where it's banned. Or not, or not live here. Or I don't know litigiously caught up in the courts. You can follow me on threads. If you love the pod loads, there's a link down below where you can support us with real earth money. All of that gets fed back into all of the associated costs that come along with making a podcast every couple of weeks. We'll be back with more action in a couple of weeks. In the meantime, thank you for joining us. Thank you, Emil. Thank you, Nervy. God! Enjoy him. Please stand for the national anthem. Guys, I'm not wearing pants.
